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List classes of boat for sale |
High Performance Boats |
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skslr 
Posting king 
Joined: 24 Jul 06 Location: Germany Online Status: Offline Posts: 139 |
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 Topic: High Performance BoatsPosted: 19 Mar 07 at 5:40pm |
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We are owning an RS800 and tried both set-ups, also
one RS800 at SunSail:
If you go through all the hassle of paying,
rigging, launching and keeping an RS800 upright you want all the fun, i.e.
helming from the wire :-) On the single wire version you rely pretty much on the
righting moment your trapezing crew creates. But if he/she is just hoisting the
kite or sitting on the bow (in light air as the RS800 has virtually no rocker)
and a puff hits you, you are in trouble...
I think a real single wire version of the RS800
would need to be somewhat easier to sail: More rocker, more weight, less sail
area - somewhere between RS800 and Laser 4000. Or 59er with single trapeze and
better quality... Cherub/29er/National 12/Vago are in my opinion to small to be
easy to sail for tall/big men.
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mike ellis
Really should get out more 
Joined: 30 Dec 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2339 |
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Posted: 19 Mar 07 at 7:16pm |
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just read through this and noticed someone mentioned making the N12 quicker, surely it wont go that quick will it? i mean its a nice light boat and its quick for a hiker but you wouldnt get it down to 850 with more sail alone. what is the PY for a national 12 anyway? im geussing around 1000-1050
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600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it.
Also International 14, 1318 |
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Merlinboy
Really should get out more
Joined: 03 Jul 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3169 |
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Posted: 19 Mar 07 at 7:23pm |
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Fingures crossed the boss will be back soon as well!!
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Isis
Really should get out more
Joined: 01 Sep 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2753 |
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Posted: 19 Mar 07 at 7:24pm |
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mike ellis
Really should get out more
Joined: 30 Dec 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2339 |
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Posted: 19 Mar 07 at 8:05pm |
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is that a would that measure as a national 12 hull? or is it just a cherub isis?
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600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it.
Also International 14, 1318 |
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iansmithofotley
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Otley, West Yorkshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 209 |
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Posted: 19 Mar 07 at 8:17pm |
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Hi everyone, As far as I know, many years ago, there was a Cherub design that measured as a National Twelve in accordance with the National Twelve measurement rules. I think that some of the problems are with the Twelves 'rise of floor' measurement and the 'shape of sheerline' rules. Ian (Yorkshire Dales S.C.) |
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JimC
Really should get out more
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 19 Mar 07 at 8:27pm |
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I believe the hull would have measured as a 12 -it was basically a 12 with the sides truncated to get within the Cherub rules. Opinion on successful it was as a Cherub is varied: on the one hand Jack Sparrow will tell you its superb, on the other hand most Cherubs built since have been variations of the Simon Roberts design as used for the Daemon, which is not very similar.
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Skiffybob
Really should get out more
Joined: 04 Dec 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 842 |
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Posted: 19 Mar 07 at 8:47pm |
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everyone sems to get really hung-up on PY rating, and I don't understand why. I've sailed boats with PY's of 950+ which are much quicker and more fun than other boats with PY's of sub 850. The PY system isn't a real way to judge a boat's performance. It's like judging how quick and fun a car is by the BHP (I guarantee that a Lotus Elise is quicker and more fun than a lardy Bentley with twice the BHP!). Typically to increase a boat's PY, you need to increase it's length to make it quicker upwind and when displacement sailing, hence making it less dynamic. You have to ask yourself whether you want a lardy bentley to "waft" around the course in at high speed but in confort, or whether you want to tear-ass round in a go-cart with your hair on fire. If you want the former, buy based on PY, if you want the latter, buy based on "less is more" (i.e. shorter and lighter is always quicker and more fun). For my money a 97-rules single-wire Cherub is the Chaterham 7 of dinghy's (and the 12ft skiff is a bit more like the konniggseggg!). If you've never tried a short, light boat, do it. there's never been a better time... |
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redback
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Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502 |
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Posted: 19 Mar 07 at 10:20pm |
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I was thinking of the RS800 single wire when I wrote what I did, that's why I chose 850 as a PY. Surely a 59er with a PY just over 900 indicates that 850 would be an acceptable aim for a single wire boat. I also think the 4000 would go a lot faster if only it were lighter. I wasn't aware the 800 lacked power without the helm on the wire after all the wings were wider and surely the 59er helm msut feel very powerless and yet manages a PY of just over 900. What I am sure of is the boat will have to be longer than 14foot. Boats of that or shorter length just grind to a halt when the wind drops and they are crewed by a couple of average sized guys especially if designed for high speed (ie very little rocker and the rig set well back). So I reckon we are looking for a 59er with a trapeze and taller rig. Or a 15 foot B14 with narrower racks and a trapeze or lightwieght L4000 (with a slightly flatter aft section). I'm afraid the RS500 although an excellent boat is no where fast enough and twin string Cherubs although capable of great speed at times will not average enough speed around the course in this country's average winds and certainly not with a couple of guys each of 13 stone. Its been an interesting discussion. |
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JimC
Really should get out more
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 19 Mar 07 at 11:01pm |
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You could do a modern 505/Javelin sized boat, and given a reasonably modern rig and hull shape you'd probably get to around that sort of PY, but I'm not sure it would be that popular a boat.To get to that sort of performance the boat would be a bit big for anything but the sea and the biggest inland lakes and reservoirs, as indeed the 505 is, and if you want speed without too much leaping about in a steady stable boat that's only suitable for larger venues then you may as well get a catamaran that will do the job even better...
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