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Has Laser dropped the 4000?

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49erGBR735HSC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 49erGBR735HSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Has Laser dropped the 4000?
    Posted: 15 Jun 06 at 2:08pm

If a new builder was appointed for the 4000 class, the best thing I could see is reducing build costs to bring the retail price of the class down. You can get very good 4000s for about £2000 to £3,500, if a builder was to sell the boats at about £4,500 to £5,500, I reckon the new boat sails would sky rocket a bit. The possibilty of opening the sail maker but keeping to the strict measurements of the sails would also be a positive step in the right direction

Dennis Watson 49er GBR735
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowhammer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 06 at 2:57pm

you'd never get a 4k down to £5,500, Jeff VB struggled hard to keep the retail price of the V3000 below £5,000, and chosing North over Sobstad as the sailmaker has pushed it to £5150 ... £6k might be possible for a 4k at a similar quality to the current build (Laser price is £8k), maybe £6.5k - £7k with a lighter hull in higher grade materials (not composite rig), but you lose Laser's marketing leverage

wrt sails, Laser govern the rules (in consultation with the CA) but they may well agree to open sails, at the request of the class, if the boat is nearing the end of its product life cycle with them



Edited by yellowhammer
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49erGBR735HSC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 49erGBR735HSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 06 at 3:33pm
£6k compared to £8k is still quite a difference. I'm making my point about not knocking any weight off due to the fact that the 4000 still has a relatively strong class and doesn't need to take that action to generate more interest in the class. Say you knock at least about 30kg off the weight of the 4000, add further more weights to the boat for class racing which would complicate issues further, what's to stop people taking all the weights out for club racing and having an unfair advantage. Not all the racing is done on the circuit and it would get down-heartening being stuck behind faster 4000s because they are lighter. I'm playing devil's advocate here because our club used to let us sail 5000s without weights and reckon that if the 5000 went the lighter route as is being suggested, they wouldn't have minded us knocking the correctors out if we had a lighter boat. If we still owned a 5000 and the class was pushing towards lighter boats being built by another builder, forgetting all other facts, the prospect of lighter boats being brought into the class would be enough to push us out into the 49er or I14. You can parallel the same sort of line of thought to Laser 4000 sailors jumping ship from the class to either the RS800 or the 29erXX. Future planning, do you buy a new 4000 which is slightly lighter or buy a faster boat for the same price (second-hand)?

Edited by 49erGBR735HSC
Dennis Watson 49er GBR735
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SymBoy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SymBoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 06 at 6:26pm

Originally posted by 49erGBR735HSC

I'm making my point about not knocking any weight off due to the fact that the 4000 still has a relatively strong class and doesn't need to take that action to generate more interest in the class.

As I recall Laser 2 was in a similar situation when 4000 turned up!

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote m_liddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 06 at 6:35pm
Knocking weight off would mess up the weight equalisation which is why the lighter 800 are/were only semi equalised.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote carshalton fc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 06 at 9:04pm

yer it would be great to take lots of weight out of the 4000 but it would mess the strong class racing up. if they were going to do anything to it i would love to see a carbon rig and cheaper sails.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowhammer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 06 at 10:52pm

from (little) experience to date, the front runners go for the better performance (lighter) Mk 2 boats, and get top draw racing, but further down the fleet the Mk 2 boats are burried in amongst the Mk 1s ... there's still good racing in the Mk 1s

i recon if you can bring the full potential out of a design (balancing performance against longevity) you're on to a long term winner ... settle for second best and you'll be bettered

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender 541 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 06 at 4:52am

There may be strong commercial reasons why the 4k is (apparently) being dropped, like Laser cannot justify it as a self supporting entity (it does not make money and the rest of the range supports it's production)

Has anyone actually asked Laser what they are doing?

When you find a big kettle of crazy it's probably best not to stir it - Pointy Haired Boss

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Post Options Post Options   Quote SymBoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 06 at 8:39am
Originally posted by yellowhammer

from (little) experience to date, the front runners go for the better performance (lighter) Mk 2 boats, and get top draw racing, but further down the fleet the Mk 2 boats are burried in amongst the Mk 1s ... there's still good racing in the Mk 1s

Mk1 and Mk2? I thought it was a one design. What's the difference?

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 06 at 8:50am
Originally posted by SymBoy



Mk1 and Mk2? I thought it was a one design. What's the difference?



Mk1 = original Laser 3000 as built by Performance sailcraft, Mk2 = new vandercraft V3000.

Similar to the devlopments in the Blaze fleet arounf 5 years or so ago. It was widely known that the boat was good aside from the rig issues (fully battened main that was a bit of a beast). They worked with Topper to redesign to a semi soft sail which can be feathered. There were other minor changes to the boat (introduction or carbon racks over ally racks and some different rigging options). Aside from that a 'Mk1' Blaze is still as fast as a 'Mk2' (known as the Blaze X).

Changes in a one design boat can be positive as long as the class manages them carefully and gets the association membership involved. Thats why 2nd hand Blazes are like rocking horse droppings and there is a waiting list for new boats.

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