i14 vs 49er etc...

We had a similar dilema a few years back when we were shifting classes from the 5k, it was either RS800, 49er or 14. We looked at the 800 and the dealer who was selling the boat said we'd be at the top end of the weight scale (roughly about 140-150kg) and indicated that it would basically be a backward step from the 5k. The things which were in its favour was the class had a lot of 5k and 4k sailors moving into it. We then looked at the 14 and were looking at Morrison 9s and 10s along side Bieker 2s and 3s. We were quite interested in the boat and it was a close run thing between the 49er. The off putting factor was slightly before the hydro-foils came into effect and the guys with semi competitive boats such as the Beiker 2 were having to spend quite a bit to convert the boats and even then, the older designed shape of the hulls weren't as suited to the conversion as the newer designs. Other factors such as the possibility of development with sails and rigs could be a future expenditure which we couldn't account for and there are boats which have to get their rigs insured seperately to the hull because insurers don't want to have to cover the expense of the rig under normal boat insurance really put us off. The good thing about the 49er is even although the sails, etc can be paralleled expense wise to the 14, you can be assured that you only need to replace them when they become worn past competitiveness instead of due to there being a development within the class and you are in the position of having reasonable gear which is non-competitive because a new design has came about. Sailing wise, the 800 can be paralled to a 4000 demand-wise. The 14s are really quick but I'd still say they aren't as quick as the 9er. Due to the T-foil, the 14 is quite stable upwind and downwind posesses more longitudal stability than the 9er, ie, its less inclined to pitch the bow in. The 9er can be extremely quick in a breeze and pretty hairy and has a knack of allowing you to not get over cocky in the boat. The bow does go down in heavy swell but there is a knack to stop it going down the mine, just head up slightly, the crew feathers the kite just slightly and it knocks the power off, stopping the boat from accelerating into the trough of the wave. I have to say from my point of view, I haven't sailed a better boat than the 9er but I probably have a biased opinion and suggest you try to sail each of the boats in different conditions to get a full overall feel for the boat. I know of sailors who bought 800s and who are now wishing they'd just went straight into the 49er but in the same instance, when we were starting off in the boat, we'd be standing on the shore when it was really windy wishing we'd bought an 800 because they were out having a ball. The general advice we got when buying a 49er is in general to look for a boat above sail number 500 to be competitive (but there might be a few good ones below that number), with the 14 to definately get a boat with a T-foil, either a converted Beiker 2, Beiker 3 and now there is the Beiker 4 and the 5 is either about to come out or has been launched, Morrison wise to look at boats above Morrison 9 but the Beikers generally stay stiffer for longer. Can't really comment on the 800, but reckon trying to find a boat with a good few decent sails and no faults with the mast is the key.

It might be worth considering the fact that the 49er was the second highest class for entries within the Scottish Skiff series last year second to the Musto Skiff. I attended quite a few of the training events and most of the training was orientated towards the 49er and MPS although the skills being taught could be used universally i.e on a 14 or 600. There are quite a few 49ers located in the North, I think there is a fleet being established at Ullswater and there were at least 10 racing within the SSR circuit. The impresion I was getting last year was that the 9er and MPS were the 2 classes to be getting into, ie people were selling to move into both classes, where as I didn't see that trend with any other boats. The guys that I know within the class are very helpful, and would be more than willing to give you advice. The thing I like about the 49er is that the deck is very uncluttered and I reckon the boat is easier to tune than the 14. Both boats will be demanding to sail and a well sailed 14 will beat a poorly sailed 49er as is true with a well sailed 49er beating a poorly sailed 18. It all depends on sailor ability as is true with any class. If you are interested, Chocolate Girl was for sale a little while ago up in Scotland, not sure if its been taken off the market but its a sorted 14, might be worth checking www.scottishskiffracing.com , but I'd recommend the 9er if you want decent class racing in the North.

I have sailed both boats and for me the 14 is the best boat. You can pick up a foiling 14 for about £5000 and it will be on the pace. you would need a morrison 10,11 or 12 or a bieker 2,3,4, or 5 all will be capable of winning in the wright hands.

The 49er I think is harder to sail down wind in waves. the14 is a little easyer as it has the T foil to help it keep the nose out but it feels so fast as it is such a small boat.

Ian

That could be because the guys who are capable of winning are quite willing to throw £11k at a campaign?

I think that untill you can sail the boat to the point of making no mistakes then the fine hull developments are the least of your problems. I don't doubt that in an ideal world the latest boats will be faster but I think that in a boat of that type as long as the boat is reasonably new and sorted the nut on the end of the stick is going to be the only one stopping it from winning!

Originally posted by m_liddell [QUOTE=bovlike] The guys in the class I have spoken to reckon £11k to be on the pace...

 

Sorry, but that's really not right. Good secondhand boats, with t-foils, are going for perhaps £4k - £7k. See

http://www.international14.org/index.php?option=com_content& amp;task=view&id=38&Itemid=29

for more on practicalities (incl, costs) of sailing 14's.

Re comparisons, as others have said, there's not much between a 14 and a 49er for speed. Those who've sailed both say the 14, being shorter and narrower, feels friskier (even with a t-foil). The 14s are allegedly more fun socially (none of those over-intense wannabee Olympic types). You need to decide for yourself if you like being able to change things on the boat or not. 14 rigs move on, although the hull designs are pretty stable at present - and re the rigs, if you're sailing regularly, you'll be getting new sails every so often (2-3 years for mains?) anyway...

RS800's are aimed at lighter crews, incl perhaps boyfriend/girlfriend combos. Nothing wrong with that, but again depends what you're looking for yourself

One last comment - if you two really can't communicate as helm and crew, I'm afraid though any fast skiff is going to be a problem!

Cheers