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Magno vs FevaXL vs Laser2

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mike ellis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Magno vs FevaXL vs Laser2
    Posted: 07 May 06 at 6:25pm
laser 3000 get very bad foils after being sailed a while though. a friend of mine has a daggerboard with a back edge like a bread knife, except not as even. does this happen to all lasers or is it just 3000?
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Also International 14, 1318
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 06 at 1:57pm
Nope, just my brain!
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Isis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 06 at 11:57pm
Chris249, is your '3' button broken?
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 06 at 11:48pm
Thanks for all that. I was interested in the comparative performance because I thought the L2/L3000 were about the crossover point where symmetrical and assy are similar in pace.

I shouldn't have sounded so dismissive of the V3000, I always get concerned for the sport when boats are made less competitive but that is of course a decision for the L2000 class. It's great that the L2000 trophies will still be going around - that's the sort of compromise that seems fair.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote timnoyce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 06 at 11:17pm
or they could just make the V3000 sailors carry 30kg of lead?! or would you then just be going round in circles!? 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowhammer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 06 at 11:08pm

We've got the V3000 at Carsington (Ashborne, Derbyshire) next weekend, for its first open. Hoping for a blow to get some decent photo's. I'll post a shot with the new North sails, whatever.

The boat is available there for three weeks, before heading down to Queen Mary (W London) at half-term. We can arrange a demo at either venue, contact info@3000class.org.uk if you'd like to "make a date".

Strikes me, one advantage of the 3000 over the Laser 2 is the ease of handling an asymmetric kite for novice crews, rather than a symmetric kite which is more of an art form (I learned in Fireballs, from being an absolute beginner).

There's such a wide range of ability on our circuit, I expect L3000s and V3000s to be well mixed up in the results table, except that the top class sailors are tending to opt for the "V" so competition at the front will remain close.

We're retaining the existing Laser 3000 Nationals trophy for the highest placed "classic" Laser 3000, which gives sailors lower in the fleet something to compete for. There will be a new overall trophy (and who knows, a Laser 3000 might just walk away with both).

I've got the V all day on Saturday at Carsington ... can't wait ... please, please, please, let there be wind!!!

PS The Laser II PY is 1035, and the "3000" (i.e. Laser 3000 or V3000) is 1030, until we have a feel for whether the "V" needs to be rated lower (expectation is not, based on the average sailor in average UK sailing conditions.)

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timnoyce View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote timnoyce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 06 at 9:25pm
I stupidly didn't take a camera as was stood next to it for a few hours! I have no pics but can tell you that they did look like very nice sails... shame they were sat next to the brand new fyfes on Will and Lucys cherub or they'd have looked even more impressive!
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Andrewst View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Andrewst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 06 at 9:10pm
Any pics of the V3000 with its new North sails yet? I here it was at Datchet form the 29th -1st.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 06 at 6:24pm

Firstly, thanks Isis for putting the obvious reply to Chris so succinctly.

I raced a L2 for four years, and an L3k for two, so am in a pretty good position to compare them.

Speedwise, Tim, I think you would be absolutely right were it not for the fact that the L3k is very much more sorted than the L2 - when as an L2 sailor you first sail a 3k it's a real delight: with the L2 you are always struggling with under-rated components (bendy boom, diamonds instead of normal spreaders thus no possibility of mast pre-bend, spi pole that likes to disappear round the forestay etc.), whereas the L3k all works properly by and large. Plus the sailplan is much better balanced: you have to steer an L2 with the mainsheet - so much as look at the rudder and it ventilates -  whereas the identical blade on the 3k is more than adequate (I was actually shocked to discover they're the same on both boats - thought the 3k's was much bigger).

Downwind, the L3k is very much a soaker in most conditions, and works pretty well in that mode, but the L2 should beat it on a square run. Be interesting to see whether the lighter V3k is more of an apparent wind sailing boat; I suspect it will be - the planing performance will be just sufficiently better to make it worth heading up and getting the crew on the wire.

Kite-reaching the L3k will beat the L2 because of its bigger kite, and upwind the more efficient rig might gain you a smidgen ('white sail areas' are effectively the same).

But what will really set the 3k's, L & V, above the L2 should be the new North sails (and £400 cheaper than the Laser sails!) with more modern kite design and sexy battened jib with a tad of overlap making jib trim less excrutiatingly critical.

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timnoyce View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote timnoyce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 06 at 4:16pm
On handicap the laser 3000 and the laser 2 are very similar speed wise. I think that it would be very dependant on the course sailed as to which would be faster round the cans. I have sailed the laser 2 quite a lot and have to think that it would be quicker than the 3000 in most conditions due to a few things...

1. The laser 2 can benefit from being able to go point to point on the downwind legs where as the 3000 has to cope with zig zagging downwind.

2. The 3000 is relatively underpowered and so you don't get the real benefit of the asymetric kite (very hard to build any form of apparent wind on the run without travelling much further).

3. On the reaching legs they should be quite similar, maybe even being able to point higher with the laser 2 kite?!


(I have never sailed a laser 3000 so this is just my view having sailed the laser 2 and other asymetric boats. Although being easier to handle I can't see the asymetric kite being quicker than a similar symetric kite in most conditions in a 'medium performance' boat of this type. Its only when the apparent wind really builds that it comes into its own)
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