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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Posts: 962 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 2 Man Boat for Fatties
    Posted: 17 Jan 06 at 12:49pm

Speaking as an ex-fatty there could be another issue. When I was 15.5 stone+ I was also bleedin clumsy and found crewing a B14 with my skinny brother really uncomfortable.

I think we need to define what sort of weight we're talking about: A, average build with lots of padding or B, large build with less padding. It makes a difference because if you are in category A and sail a high performance boat for long enough you will become just average build and may find you're lighter than you'd like for the boat.
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Shingle View Drop Down
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Posts: 111 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Shingle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 06 at 1:48pm
In summary then there is a 2 man hiking boat that can carry heavy weights, but it demands some time in getting to know it, the 59er . There is a demand for a single trapeze boat that will do the same but no one wants to make it. RS won't because it may eat in to 800 sales, and Ovington haven't got the resources. Tofu ryvita anyone?
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limey View Drop Down
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Posts: 46 		Post Options Post Options   Quote limey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 06 at 2:17pm
 The introduction of a single trapeze to the 59 er is about to discount that which is certainly in iits present form still not a boat for heavvyweights. The main and jib sail area is smaller than that of the 400 and significantly flatter. Only the spinny is a decent size. The fact remains that if you are an average size Finn or Phantom helm, or a 505,Osprey,FD, Javelin etc etc crew you will not find a modern two man hiker (without a piece of lead under it) capable of carrying 25-30 stone competitively. And if you dont think this applies to you and you are over 6ft; wait and see what happens when you turn 40 !!!!!
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russell View Drop Down
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Posts: 68 		Post Options Post Options   Quote russell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 06 at 2:31pm

Sail area is no the ony factor in determining whether it will carry weight - yes it has slightly less upwind sail area than an RS400 (0.5m2) BUT it has a significantly higher aspect rig and for me a more effective use of beam. The shape of the rig also helps the upwind performance, it does look odd looking at flat sails but it seems to work.  Its also 10kg lighter than a 400. I used to own a 400 and for me the 400 feels like a conventional boat with an asymetric rig, the 59er is a skiff. In the 400 I spent a lot of time on set up, making sure kicker tension is right etc to get the best out of it.  The 59er rig is more simple, its 100% about technique and not about fiddling with string.

There is nothing wrong with not liking a particular boat for what ever reason, but I don't think its fair to say that the 59er won't carry weight.  It does after all have a minimum combined crew weight of 150kg, below which I believe you are required to carry lead showing that it is not aimed at light crews.
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Posts: 68 		Post Options Post Options   Quote russell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 06 at 2:37pm

Originally posted by limey

  The fact remains that if you are an average size Finn or Phantom helm, or a 505,Osprey,FD, Javelin etc etc crew you will not find a modern two man hiker (without a piece of lead under it) capable of carrying 25-30 stone competitively. And if you dont think this applies to you and you are over 6ft; wait and see what happens when you turn 40 !!!!!

Sorry forgot to mention I am 37, 6ft and beat all the other asymetrics at the London boat show pursuit this weekend (ok except Geoff Carveth in the RS200 but does that count??) with 26.5 stone in the boat, winds varying from 0 - 18 knots, and kite up for less than 10% of the lap
Russell

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Shingle View Drop Down
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Posts: 111 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Shingle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 06 at 2:45pm

The 59er trapeze option at present was going to be a bespoke mod by owners, and yes although the main and jib are roughly similar to a 400 with a .76 difference, the 59er is significantly lighter. Having sailed handicap races with contenders and RS700 & 800's sailed by ex European and National champions the boat is always there or there abouts in the top 5. If you think the 59er is underpowered it must have been light airs or the boat was set-up incorrectly. As stated previously we sail just over 25 stone all up and plenty powerful enough.
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russell View Drop Down
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Posts: 68 		Post Options Post Options   Quote russell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 06 at 3:09pm
Hey Shingle where do you sail?
Russell

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gordon View Drop Down
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 06 at 3:15pm

My dear Shingle - that you seem to consider that 25 stone is a heavy crew merely illustrates the problem. That's only 79.35 kilo each. According to the chart I have here 25% of 22 year old males weigh more than 72 kilos

 

I fail to see how two scrum halves in a boat could in any way be considered as anything other than a lightweight crew! Bring back the pre-trapeze International 14s,  the Tempest, the pre weight limit Star and other real big boats.

 

Gordon

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Pierre View Drop Down
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Posts: 1532 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Pierre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 06 at 3:28pm
Gordon .... they look at the words but don't understand ...  kal duipqhu friqh rhuiqfh

My two eldest sons (18 & 20) both 6'2", fit and leen, one 13 stone one 14 stone.  With me at 15 stone, the Osprey was a natural choice for me, but nothing else really carries the weight.

With the rig technology around these days I can't see any reason why someone can't build a 2 man hiker up to a sensible crew weight, and then our lighter chums can simply depower.
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limey View Drop Down
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Posts: 46 		Post Options Post Options   Quote limey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 06 at 3:32pm
Pierre,absolutely the point in a nutshell !!!!
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