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YouthSailing, the RYA and Catamarans

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Worthy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Worthy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: YouthSailing, the RYA and Catamarans
    Posted: 28 Sep 07 at 6:29pm
Originally posted by JimC


Yep, and the text on the petition departs significantly from the facts, reducing its credibility still further...


A quote from earlier in this thread

Originally posted by Worthy


The petition site has now been amended to clarify that point.

However it is, in my view, still tantamount to the RYA abandoning catamarans as a whole which is the feeling of the people signing the petition.

On the note about invalidity of the petition, the links to the submissions are clear from the site for all to see, so all are able to make up their mind with all the information available to them.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Worthy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 07 at 6:32pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

How many of those are actually paid up members of the RYA though - very few I'd expect ...



Sadly you are missing the issues involved and the point of the petition completely.

This is a global issue, it affects every cat sailor in the world.  Therefore every cat sailing country is talking to their ISAF representatives and taking action.

There are people from many countries who have signed the petition, a few are:

Australia
New Zealand
Russia
Spain
Holland
USA
Italy
France
Germany

and the list goes on.

This is an International PR nightmare for the RYA!


Edited by Worthy
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Stuart O View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stuart O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 07 at 7:13pm
Originally posted by JimC

[Yep, and the text on the petition departs significantly from the facts, reducing its credibility still further...

Come on Jim tell us which bit?

fact RYA want to drop Youth cats

fact RYA is not supporting a multihull in 2012

IMO in doesnt take Einstein to work out that the 2 are linked, by removing one of the feeder systems to the other it will starve the other.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 07 at 7:47pm
Which bit? Well, this would be a more accurate text...

The RYA has recently made many submissions to ISAF for theNovember Conference. These submissions by the RYA were made using the normal committee procedures used by the RYA in determining every submission, of which there are dozens every year.

Amongst these submissions is one which suggests that the unpopular Catamaran event at the youth Worlds is replaced by a dinghy event using the more popular 29er class. Another makes eight recommendations for the ten classes at the 2012 Olympics, which recommendations include neither catamaran nor keelboat classes.

We request that these particular submissions are withdrawn before the ISAF conference in early November and replaced by alternative submissions which support the use of catamarans both in future Olympics (2012 and beyond) and for youth training.


As has been noted above there is no evidence youth catamran classes feed the the Olympic class - indeed what evidence there is suggest that they positively do not. When I see the performance of something like a Tornado, A class or other big cat I am not suprised that they don't need youth classes to feed them, as they look to be superb boats in their own right without any need to funnel sailors into them. As an Canoe sailor who previously sailed Cherubs (with 25 years of being the only skiff type boat in the UK) I have never regarded the RYA "progressions" as being on my side: quite the opposite.

Edited by JimC
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Worthy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 07 at 8:10pm
Originally posted by JimC

As has been noted above there is no evidence youth catamran classes feed the the Olympic class


You forget Leigh McMillain.

He was involved in the advent of the H16 squad.

Also, the RYA cancelled the olympic development squad before the second wave of youth sailors were able to make the jump to the olympic squad making you whole comment irrelevant as the RYA have never given them the chance!


Edited by Worthy
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stuart O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 07 at 8:22pm

Still show us where in this petition does it say the the RYA youth cat is a feeder?

The RYA has recently made submissions to ISAF to remove the catamaran as a youth boat for 2009, and to remove the catamaran as an Olympic boat for 2012.

These submissions by the RYA were made without any consultation with the sailing community. We request that the submissions are withdrawn before the ISAF conference in early November and replaced by alternative submissions which support the use of catamarans both in future Olympics (2012 and beyond) and for youth training.

Please send this petition to all of your sailing friends.


[Edit - Just to clarify a point, the 2nd proposal doesn't include a catamaran as an Olympic class, rather than specifically excluding it.]


Links to the submissions by the RYA are below:

http://www2.sailing.org/meetin...
http://www2.sailing.org/meetin...

Without playing semantics with you what your proposing has the same meaning as the above which is the wording in the petition.

In regard to training and natural progression can we see your evidence for this. 

I will concede to the beauty of a cat and its performance as I too came from the monohull route and saw the error of my past



Edited by Stuart O
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Post Options Post Options   Quote BarneyS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 07 at 9:21pm

Before this becomes all out war could I quietly suggest that the cat sailing community sits down and carefully takes a look at what the RYA have proposed and perhaps more importantly did NOT propose.

As JimC points out the petition, even in its edited form, is incorrect and misleading.  He is not playing semantics (Stuart O) but pointing out that two of the 'facts' in the original petition are clearly wrong.

1) The RYA are not seeking "to remove the catamaran as an Olympic boat for 2012."  (The edit added at the end of the petition in an attempt to clarify this is not clear enough - you should have changed the original wording).  The petition, even in it's revised form, is still misleading.  Just read the comments added AFTER the edit.  From these you will see that the majority of those signing have yet to work out that the RYA are not asking for catamarans to be removed from the Olympics.

2)  The RYA did NOT make these submissions "without any consultation with the sailing community".   As JimC points out the RYA followed it's usual proceedure in preparing these submissions, as it did with all other submissions to the ISAF conference.  As pointed out by several others in this forum thread, the RYA has a well established system of committees with representations from the sailing community being allowed at many stages.  If Cat sailors don't feel represented please go and join the party.  i.e. join the RYA and volunteer to get on some of the committees or get yourself elected to RYA Council. 


Cat sailors, please get your house in order before your meeting with the RYA on 8 October.   The RYA are, in many peoples eyes, the most successful National Authority of any sport.  You may not agree with their actions, but please make sure you are disagreeing with the facts of the case, not a misleading set of inaccuracies.


We now have a situation where over 1000 people have signed a petition which does not stand up to close scrutiny and the Cat sailing community seem to believe that the RYA are trying to destroy them.  All this is based on circulation of incorrect and misleading information.  What a mess!

Good luck on October 8th but please stick to the facts not prejudices or rumours.

(By the way I speak as a PR professional who regularly writes press releases, consultation text and other words that MUST be factually correct.  I would have lost my job if I'd been responsible for publishing the misleading and factually incorrect words in either the original or edited petition.)

 

 

 

 

 

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Worthy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Worthy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 07 at 9:52pm
Originally posted by BarneyS

1) The RYA are not seeking "to remove the catamaran as an Olympic boat for 2012."  (The edit added at the end of the petition in an attempt to clarify this is not clear enough - you should have changed the original wording).  The petition, even in it's revised form, is still misleading.  Just read the comments added AFTER the edit.  From these you will see that the majority of those signing have yet to work out that the RYA are not asking for catamarans to be removed from the Olympics.



As clearly stated before, the links to the submissions are clear from the site for all to see, so all are able to make up their mind with all the information available to them.


Originally posted by BarneyS


2)  The RYA did NOT make these submissions "without any consultation with the sailing community".   As JimC points out the RYA followed it's usual proceedure in preparing these submissions, as it did with all other submissions to the ISAF conference.  As pointed out by several others in this forum thread, the RYA has a well established system of committees with representations from the sailing community being allowed at many stages.  If Cat sailors don't feel represented please go and join the party.  i.e. join the RYA and volunteer to get on some of the committees or get yourself elected to RYA Council. 



I don't know about you, but I think it common courtesy to tell someone when I am making an action that is not in their interest.  That is just polite.



Anyway, this is all by the by.  This is now a global issue (please don't think I am referring to the petition here!) and will come down on the RYA very hard.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote nacra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 07 at 10:09pm
Barney S, who is on these committees, I do a lot of cat sailing, i've never met anybody who represents us?????
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Worthy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 07 at 10:14pm
Originally posted by nacra

Barney S, who is on these committees, I do a lot of cat sailing, i've never met anybody who represents us?????


Barney S

We asked Bigcat earlier in the thread how to get on the committees but he didn't know.  Can you shed any light on how to get on them please????
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