Classes fading in popularity

Blobby,

That is an interesting view and I can appreciate it but I believe the MPS is easier to sail than the MPS because;

1) It has a smaller and more manageable mainsail
2) It has a fully battened mail which means that after a gybe the sail flips slower delaying the point at which the mainsail loads up a common point of capsize.
3) The simple kite hoist/drop system means you can easily recover the kite when capsized from the daggerboard avoiding a risky invert if you sail in shallow water
4) The gap in the wing is the correct size so you can move between it when recovering a capsize. With my weight on the 700 I can't fit through the gap and when I tried I got wedged - no very plesant
5) It's between 12 and 28kgs (depending on equalisation) lighter so it's easier to use you body weight to control the boat.

Both boats offer a significant challenge to the sailor - I'd recommend anyone interested to try both boats then select the one that best suits you. BUT don't make judgements on what it LOOKS like may be the case try them both and make an informed choice.

Also take with a pinch of salt the views of someone who has only sailed one of theses two boats as they will be biased (I have sailed both).

Rick

I'm a bit confused by some of Ricks comments on the RS700 which don't match my experiences in the boat.

1) It has a smaller and more manageable mainsail

But the 700 mainsail isn't fully battened which makes it easier to control than fully battened sails I've used.

2) It has a fully battened mail which means that after a gybe the sail flips slower delaying the point at which the mainsail loads up a common point of capsize.

Maybe true, I can't say I've noticed this effect when I've sailed fully battened boats in a blow?

3) The simple kite hoist/drop system means you can easily recover the kite when capsized from the daggerboard avoiding a risky invert if you sail in shallow water

I find it very easy to  pump the spinaker down after a capsize from the centreboard. 

Surely having a free hand (which the pump system effectively gives you) makes it easier to control the boat whilst hoisting or dropping, avoiding another potential capsize point. 

4) The gap in the wing is the correct size so you can move between it when recovering a capsize. With my weight on the 700 I can't fit through the gap and when I tried I got wedged - no very plesant

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience here. The gap varies depending on your leverage, I don't know what hole Rick was using but on a narrow setting I find it very easy to hook a leg over the wing and hop into the boat as it comes up.  If your wings are wider the gap becomes more attractive

5) It's between 12 and 28kgs (depending on equalisation) lighter so it's easier to use you body weight to control the boat.

Where did you get the 12-28 figures from?   The quoted all up sailing weights of both boats is within a kg of each other at 79kg for the RS700 and 80kg for the MPS (taken from the websites).  Yes, if you are lighter you can end up carrying up to 12kg of correctors in the 700, the difference in boat weight is thus -1 to 11kg.  

The equalisation really works and can create some terrific close racing.  I personally don't have a problem with everyones all up weight (boat + helm) and righting power being very similar to my own.

I personally think they are both great designs each with it's 'minor' pro's and con's and agree that anyone should try both before they buy. 

Ian,

Have you ever weighed your own boat?

I have weighed 3 MPS's and 2 RS700's so I am happy to quote those figures. Actally I should have quoted 12 - 24kgs, sorry, I thought you could carry more lead.

You can't believe all you read on the manufactures data sheets; I have always weighed my boats on collection. I was particularly surprised when I took delivery of my first RS200 - quoted hull weight 78kgs - reality some what more.

Just weigh your own boat and then post back here the result.

Rick

In many industries you would expect up to 70% of new products to fail or be replaced.  I think the boating industry actually has a comparatively high level of success.

How many of the recent launches of SMOD racing classes have actually failed? 

The Laser EPS is the only example I can think of where the manufacturer has walked away and the class association doesn't appear to be keeping the thing going.  I don't know if you can still buy a 5000 these days but the association is still active.

RS certainly continue to support all of the boats they have launched and the 300 and 600 class associations are very active.  I believe Topper will still build you an ISO, Boss etc

The Sprint and Laser 3000 class associations are keeping things moving through their hard work and enthusiasm.

I think that the vast majority of the boats launched these days are actually good designs which will find a niche in the market.  It's too expensive to tool up and launch a dog these days. 

Have the new classes fragmented the market?  Possibly, but I think they also keep people interested in sailing and attract new blood into the sport.  If you had said we should only sail one type of trapeze singlehander, we would all be Contendering and there would be no RS600/RS700/MPS each of which has it's unique attractions.  You have to allow progress.

It seems to me that as long as there is either an enthusiastic manufacturer or an enthusiastic class asociation, the class will keep going.

The ones we've both already forgotten about. Every London and Southhampton boat show has new classes, many of which are quickly forgotten.

To be honest, I don't follow new dinghy classes with all that much interest, but if I look at keelboat classes, which is more my kind of sailing these days, the great majority fail to sell more than a handful. Want an example from a major manufacturer? While the SB3 is being made in large numbers, I haven't heard much of  the RS K6 lately and the RS Elite could be viewed at attempt two by RS to market a keelboat. More examples? Following the succesful 11.3, the Ker 9.8 was mooted as the next Sigma/33 with sales in the hundreds. I don't think they actually finished a single one. The Corby 33: another "next Sigma/33": 2 or 3 made I think. I don't think any of these were bad boats: they just didn't find a market. As you say, in most businesses, most new products fail.