This subject often arises in the conterxt of Single Manufacturers One Designs (SMODs).  There is little doubt that some classes will always be with us.  The International 14 will not fade due to its continued development which keeps it at the forefront of dinghy technology.  So to a lesser extent will the other development classes such as Merlin, Moth, N12.  And then there are the not so strict ODs like the 5o5, Scorpion, Wayfarer which by some judicious updating manage to keep popular.  But remember the Maruader and the Mirror 16 to name 2 strict ODs which have faded?  What other classes will fade?  What classes will manage to persist and why?  That's the topic for this thread.

Good question.

It's easy to say it's about the boat, and it is the good boats that will last. But as someone who helped run a class association for a few years, I know there is more to it than that. A lot has to do with the energy of the people who run the class, and the willingness of enough class members to put in some work into the association so that those whose enthusiasm for committee working is waning can stand down and be replaced with new blood. Too many class associations (and clubs come to that) are run by slightly jaded individuals who would love to stand down but can't because nobody will take their place.

The Merlin is a class I've sailed but I haven't been involved with the class association, so I can comment without blowing my own trumpet. It is a lovely boat but the main reason the class thrives is the people. It is a class a lot of people stay in for life, everyone knows each other and there is a good range of people prepared to contribute to the running of the class. That is why it manages to withstand the onslaught of similar SMODs with much larger marketing budgets. I remember when the Merlins were worried about the number of Merlin sailors defecting to ISOs. A lot of the younger forum members have probably never seen an ISOs but it was SMOD flavour of the month for a while: here today, gone tomorrow like so many others.

This thread is in danger of becoming a SMOD 'v' Traditional classes thread.

There are an equal number of successes and failiures in each category.

I think the formula for success is;

1) The boat
2) The people that love the boat and promote it to others

I don't think weathly manufactures can create long term successful classes with their big budgets if the above issues aren't correct. Just look at the RS300, Laser EPS, ISO etc etc ... it has to be a great boat that people love.

In the short term hype can drive a class but when the money runs out so does the hype.

Rick

Out of the 3 classes you have mentioned, only the eps has really disappeared.  The ISO seems to be coming back as a big class.

OK, LDC made a big mess when they launched the 300 and labeled it as an easy to sail single hander that is comfortable to hike in.  It is now recognised as a high performance single hander that is for top club level sailors and as a result, the numbers are increasing at traveller event.  At the recent scottish champs, there were more 300's on the line than 400's!!!

Most of the "failed" SMOD's achieve some level of "end of life" status as they offer very cheap sailing.

However; new boat sales are the best indicator of success for the long-term. If sales have dropped to near zero then it's just a matter of time to the end ...

Rick

I would had the emotional attachment a boat can create.

For exemple I find Int 14 and Cherub endearing while a Laser 4000 or a topper doesn't evoque anything to me (I'm not discussing about their interest or performance...)

While I'm promoting skiffs in france I love Merlin Rocket and National 12 for the same reasons as above.

All old classes which can create some emotion are still alive if they are well driven. All others are simply disappearing when a better boat come to the market (except the 420  )

Originally posted by Jack Sparrow . But I do feel that there should be some sort of control put on new classes moving into a market. Call it a Racing Class Manufacturing Licence, may be run by the RYA. I've done it now- that will get every one talking

I'll rise to that one.

Nice idea but it would almost certainly be an illegal restraint of trade. By way of comparison, in another sport I compete in, there is an RYA-equivalent "governing body" plus other smaller contenders with their own modified rules. The main governing body tried to say anyone competing under alternative rules could be barred from its events. It's lawyers told it very quickly to back off. This all happend in public, which made it even funnier to watch.

What can be achieved can be seen with the Junior (Cadet,  Mirror, Optimist and Topper) and Youth (420 and Laser) classes,  the RYA have focussed their efforts on a small number of classes.  As a result sailing at junior and youth level has flourished with large numbers competing in these classes,  just look at the Champs table.

With limited choice parents know what to buy,  so there is minimal dilution,  resources and sailors are focussed to a few key classes.

Surely this could be done at other levels without introducing restrictive practices ?

I think there is a general increase in the numbers of kids sailing as a whole, the non RYA classes such as the RS Feva managed to get plenty sailing at their nationals this year!

We have probably seen the end of manufacturers constantly trying to introduce new "Racing" classes as they realise there is more money to be made in the "Leisure" end of the market with boats like the RS Vision etc.

The situation is not really much different to the situation in the 60s / 70s where a large number of new classes were formed in a relatively short time. The better ones, such as the Fireball and Hornet are around today. Others, which were large classes for a while have faded away.

Some of the "New Classes" which have been introduced are relatively specialist, such as the RS300 and despite marketing effort will never attract "average club sailors". If the design is good, (or is improved significantly as occured in the Blaze) the class will survive. A good example of this occurring is the B14. (Although this isn't a strictly a SMOD).

I think that the SMOD's that will have the most trouble are those that are marketed as "high performance"  but are locked in the state of the art when they were designed

Rig design and sailing techniques have all moved on. Imagane a yoof helm who has come up through the 29er dabbled a bit with the B14 and the 49er then jumps into RS800 and gets handed a mainsheet he wont know what to do with it! The same for a crew getting into a L4000 Jib sheets what are they for?

Is there a basic incompatibility between SMOD principles and long-term survival as a racing class?

The obvious exception is the the Laser, but even they gave way on rigging updates that serious racers had been crying out for decades. Topper introduced the centre main.

Smaller SMOD classes may be signing their own death warrants by resisting some level of development. Unfortunately, in the early years it tends to be under manufacturer control. There's also a band-wagon of owners to contend with who don't want their boats being devalued by improved models and "cheque book sailing" kicking in.

Maybe most SMODs have a 10-year lifecycle (if they're lucky) after which the manufacturer bails out. It's left to the CA to upgrade, to make up for 10-years of technological stagnation, or die.

If the CA has lost impetus by this stage, there's only one outcome

If there's still a pulse though, this point can be the making of a class, gaining their independence (if an new small builder is prepared to take them on and the manufacturer is co-operative)

what is the point of single manufacturers why not open it to more builders but insist they all do everything the same?

 If the design is good, (or is improved significantly as occured in the Blaze) the class will survive .....

The only real technical change was to the sail.  All hulls come and came from the same mould etc and virtually all today have converted to the revised (smaller !) sail and that change was years ago.  Finding used boats of any age can be very difficult now and pre-used prices have actually risen significantly in the last 3 years.  

The real key to class  sustainability is however not the boat, however relatively "good" - It's the people who want to race them.  If they get themselves organised the class will do a lot more than survive - it will prosper.  They can work with the manufacturer but must be fully independent and take responsibility themselves.  "We" must be the ones who organise racing, consider technical changes, write the rules, even occasionally challenge the manufacturer etc - after all it's us who pay for everything.   If you think any manufacturer is going to do it for you forever or only to benefit the customer well dream on and start counting the days !  That's not to say associations cannot work well with the builder but so many good classes start to fail because the "it's THEIR fault" attitude prevails.

Get stuck in - it's YOU that makes the difference. ... Well perhaps food for thought if you like your boat but think somebody else should be doing more .....

Regards - Mike Lyons (Blaze Class Association)

Congratulation Mike on your record Blaze Nationals attendence ... you must be doing something right!

You get my vote: SMODs out ... power to the PEOPLE (and their Class Associations)

Just hope we have the same success turning our Laser 3000 'ugly duckling' into a Vandercraft 3000 'swan'.

I should add that Laser UK have been co-operative, making efforts to support a discontinued product line, and designers Bethwaite and Clark are also chipping in.

(Laser 3000 Class Association)

What a good airing - I'll pat myself on ther back for introducing the subject.  I'll return to some of the points later but I'd like to mention technology.  I sail a Laser 4000 and love it for its power but this is a class which I feel will fade because it's performance has been provided by technology and the technology is begining to look old. 

I aplaud the Blaze class they seem to have managed a difficult transition well.  They have effectively moved from being a class controlled by a manufacturer to a class managed by the members and in the process they have managed to update their design without alienating too many.  Now they have a unique and attractive boat which will persist for some time. 

There are a few other classes which seem to be going the same way, Contenders, Phantoms and Dutchmen with their carbon masts.  Having sailed a 800 I can tell you a carbon mast is the way to go, especially with the bigger faster, boats.

As an aside I must say it's a shame about the EPS, its a very nice boat to sail.

Seems there is a bit of anti SMOD amongst the owners of dev classes.

I have owned Topper, 420, 470, Fireballs, I14, RS200, RS800, 29er and Musto Skiff plus sailing in few others

I have also been a member of the class committee for 5 of these classes.

The people make the difference BUT the boat has to be good to make people want to make the effort.

The 49er has been around for 12 years and still looks great ,,, and so has the Laser.

I'd like a boat to sail with the wife; the 200 was too slow and heavy, the 29er really a youth boat and the RS800 a little too much to cope with.

Seems crazy to say that there isn't a two man boat that we'd like but the only option that is a slightly interesting is a UK niche class which is a DIY effort which has no interest to me (that the Cherub BTW).

So, I'll stick with the Musto which I think will endure like the 49er has and will still  look current many years on ... perhaps it will even be an Olympic class in 2012? and Sarah will stick with her Laser Radial whilst the Cherubs and the 12ft skiff get themselves aligned - the 14's managed it...

Rick

Which SMOD's are seeing less than 15 new boats per year?

And how do we know the truth; Laser, RS and Topper have all padded their sail numbers to mislead the market; IMHO.

I spoke to the manufacture of a single sourced component for a SMOD design who stated that he'd sold less than half the items needed to match the claims of the manufacture.

Perhaps this is where Y&Y or the RYA could help by properly auditing sail numbers to protect the sailing public from this bogus practice.

The Y&Y Racing Classes Review sort of does this but some classes don't provide complete forms so their are no new boat figures - perhaps they should only print COMPLETE submissions that can be verified.

Y&Y should have more journalistic teeth; the do have a near monopoly on the dinghy media so shouldn't be too scared of the impact on their advertising sales.

Rick

PS: Before you ask I am not going to name any names or classes on the above statement.

Not certain about that. I just think it is useful to be realistic and I've been around long enough to see what happens to most SMODs once the hype dies down. I've helped run a SMOD class association, incidentally, and seen some of the positives and negatives of manufacturer involvement in a class. 

Back just after the war Fairey Marine became the 1st builder in the modern era of SMODs, with the Firefly and others. When they ceased production in the early 70's, the Firefly had a really difficult time of things, with very few boats being built for the next 20 years. Thanks to the strength of the class association, and the longevity of the hulls, the class survived. The class now has a builder who builds good boats again (Rondar) and suddenly an almost 60 year old boat is out selling most of the modern SMODs.

So don't write off SMODs too soon. If the design is good, and the boat appeals enough to people to make them want to fight for the class, then they will be able to overcome such things as builders marketing budgets running out. Judging which will survive and which will die, however, is beyond me. Some great designs of the 60's and 70's have vanished, yet some really nasty ones have sold thousands and are still going strong, so I'd hate to say what will happen in the future!

On the 3000, Laser controlled the SMOD spec of the boat through a very detialed construction manual that they contracted their hull/sail/rig/foil/etc suppliers against. This is the same for other Laser models ... is it the same for Topper/RS/Ovington?

The Laser 3000 class rules which are managed by the National Class Association are fairly loose, mainly constraining the way the boat is fitted out and rigged, and restricting the source of major components to Laser OEM supplied items ... is this the same for other SMOD classes?

From Laser's perspective, this ensures that they get maximum return on their design investment and marketing costs. The Class should benefit from a reduced administrative burden with simple, frozen rules and pre-measured parts, allowing them to concentrate on organising events. Owners should benefit from pricing leverage that long runs on a fixed standard of components should bring.

On the face of it, it looks to be a winning formula, but for the fact that the world moves on and the one design standard is overtaken by new cheeper or lighter or better performing ways of building boats ... does this mean most SMODs are doomed at birth to be consigned to history within a decade?

The national championships table is progressing nicely this year and so far seems to be showing a general increase in numbers. Great turnouts in the Mirror & Squib nationals and the Contender, Feva, Blaze & Hurricane 5.9s all in the 50+ club. If this trend continues we are going to be looking at a new record for total boats attending a nationals?

The whole SMOD vs. non-SMOD debate seems a bit irrelevant to me. People will sail what they want to sail. As long as a class has a good size fleet then it doesn't matter what they sail as long as they enjoy it. With such high attendances there is definitely room in the market for most of these designs.

Out of the 21 nationals results so far in,  6 decreased in numbers, 11 have increased in numbers, 2 haven't changed and 2 I don't have the figures for 2004.

With regards to a class that was labeled as fading the Hurricane 5.9 was often called a dieing class by the so called experts in the yachting press.

HOW can a class that pulls in 50 boats at a nationals (putting it up there with some of the largest dinghy classes) be labeled in this way.

One reason for the large number of boats attending is great social scene organised by the class assoc. After attending another rival classes event ending up very bored, I realised how lucky the 5.9 fleet is to have this active assoc.

Thousands ... I don't think it's quite that many ...

Yeah I could spec up a boat and get it built but I'd be looking at some pretty high depreciation I suspect and it's not as easy as getting a Musto Skiff off the shelf and just going sailing ...

Winders involvement has been a huge "shot in the arm" for the Merlins; if there was a Winder Cherub I may be tempted ...

Rick

So not an RMW Cherub then...

Just a question Rick - looking at the Musto Skiff website there are a lot of boats on the second hand list being sold by people saying they are have new boats on order.  Obviously it shows that people like the boats enough to stay in the class, and invest more money in staying in class, and it does keep a flow of second hand boats moving into the market, but what does it say about the longevity of the original boats and the cost of remaining competitive in this OD class? Given that the hulls are Ovington built there should obviously not be any question about the build quality so why the need to replace the boats?

Having said that, to me class success and longevity does depend almost completely on the energy and attitude of those in the class.  Being friendly and welcoming to newcomers, assisting people in learning to sail the boats well, maintaining a fun social side, keeping the class visible in Y&Y etc.  Above all though, when talking to others telling them that your class is great.  Obviously on this forum everyone likes to sell their own class and that is a good thing.  There will always be those who come up with opposite opinions but always remember, what you see as a downside is probably one of the reasons somebody else loves that class.  If one class premanently discredits another class, both eventually suffer because of the elitist / cliquey / snobbish etc. etc. attitude you portray which then tarnishes the whole class.

Soap box has now been banished again.

Blobby, There are 3 boats for sale (one of those boats is sold) and the reason people renew their boats says that the residuals are so good that you can upgrade your boat to new for the price of a set of sails so why not ... funny how people can look for negatives.

The hulls are built by Ovi's and they last so well that the boats really hold their price. My first Musto I had for 18 months and suffered £100 depreciation. It's the cheapest (and most fun) sailing I have had in 30 years.

I don't know of any dev classes that hold their value that well and the fact that SMOD's don;t develop means they are a less risky buy than a dev class; unless it's a pants SMOD and the class implodes in which case you lose your shirt.

If the RMW Cherub proves it's self who knows ....

Rick

In which case that is damn good value.

[/QUOTE]

Yeah I could spec up a boat and get it built but I'd be looking at some pretty high depreciation I suspect and it's not as easy as getting a Musto Skiff off the shelf and just going sailing ...

[/QUOTE]

It really is as easy as buying any SMOD off the shelf. You go to RMW (or Aadvark or Bloodaxe) and you say you want a Cherub. They make you one. You collect it. You go sailing. Where's the difficult part in that? And then you own and race the only twin trapeze boat for lightweights! With the new rules just passed, what better time to buy because there is likely to be a gap before the next development comes along.

Yeah I could spec up a boat and get it built but I'd be looking at some pretty high depreciation I suspect and it's not as easy as getting a Musto Skiff off the shelf and just going sailing ...

[/QUOTE]

It really is as easy as buying any SMOD off the shelf. You go to RMW (or Aadvark or Bloodaxe) and you say you want a Cherub. They make you one. You collect it. You go sailing. Where's the difficult part in that? And then you own and race the only twin trapeze boat for lightweights! With the new rules just passed, what better time to buy because there is likely to be a gap before the next development comes along.

Down, Cherub boys, down!!

Sit...

Stay...

You may be a mad dog but I though I told you already - don't growl at the opposition - bark in a friendly manner and wag your tail so they think you are a nice dog and buy a Cherub.

Good dogs.

Yeah I could spec up a boat and get it built but I'd be looking at some
pretty high depreciation I suspect and it's not as easy as getting a Musto
Skiff off the shelf and just going sailing ...

[/QUOTE]

Jack,

Your view of marketing theory and the power of advertising is interesting.

At the end of the day it's the needs of the sailors that drive success and the ability of any classes to meet those needs.

Some companies behind SMOD's launch new products because that is an easier way to quickly sell 50 boats ... others behave more like class associations and develop products that they then promote for long term success.

There are only 4 ways to grow a business and these were well detailed by Igor Ansoff; see;

http://www.quickmba.com/strategy/matrix/ansoff/ - We can all point to companies who have followed the product development strategy. I believe the 3 major offenders who follow this route have not done a great deal for the sport in the UK (with obvious exceptions).

Some SMOD's have launched and then followed a market penetration and market development strategy.

The 49er is an exception due to the Olympic effect but I'd claim that the 29er and Musto are responsibly following a market penetration and development strategy which is good for the long term for the classes and the sport.

Other manufactures have relentlessly pumped out product after product with little regard for the impact on existing products that they hyped a year or so ago ...

Anyway - I think you have to look at each SMOD and the company behind it to view the likelihood of it fading ... those who do nothing but product development look set to fade as the focus resources on the next new toy.

Those who develop and support a strong bunch of enthusiasts will be around for years to come.

Rick

PS If the hull shape changes dramatically due to new rig on the Cherub then anyone who has just brought a new boat is a little stuffed ... as far as I can see the 12's in Aus are all rounded and Cherubs are slab sided - very different. One must be wrong?

Phew, Jack! You're going to hurt yourself, thinking this hard! Still, you've got a classic line

and self-deprecation if you buy a Skipper...   

Originally posted by Jack Sparrow come on get your heart racing... you know you want to

I'm happy sailing the Musto now and the wife in her Raidal but if the class stabalises and a new rig second hand boat is available I may be tempted but I'm not interested in the building or fixing side - I just want to sail.

Seems that fiddling and gluing things is part of Cherub ownership - I have no interest in that; if the class did what the Merlins and 12's have done and found a builder who produced an of the shelf version then I think it would benefit the class as many people like me need all their spare time to sail and don't want to waste any of it fixing or building boats - for some that is all part of the fun for many it is not hence the explosion in SMOD's. If the class is smart it will address that fact.

Rick

The class has spent alot of time and effort in addressing this very fact. And the class now has 4 builders who will sell off the shelf cherubs. These are:

RMW: - http://www.rmwmarine.com - http://www.rmwmarine.com

Bloodaxe:- http://www.bloodaxeboats.co.uk - http://www.bloodaxeboats.co.uk

Aardvark Racing:- http://www.aardvarkracing.co.uk - http://www.aardvarkracing.co.uk

DL Boats:- http://www.dlboats.co.uk - http://www.dlboats.co.uk

The only reason I tend to build and repiar parts for my boats myself is because it is much cheaper to do it that way. I am a student and so don't have alot of spare cash for sailing so I tend to bodge things to keep Strawberry on the water. If you can afford it then you can buy an off the shelf Cherub, and have it repaired profesionally.

And as for the round hull v. chines debate, that's all "horses for courses". I believe chines, vertical sides, and narrow waterlines tend to have a higher potential speed, but are much more difficult to sail as it is far more important to keep them flat. The 12ft skiffs carry ridiculous sail areas and it difficult enough as it is to keep the boats upright, without aggrevating the problem with chines, slab sides, etc. Therefore they tend to use the more forgiving "round" hull shape.

Yes I have; they are too heavy and I don't want to sit out ...

Rick

The Musto SKiff class has grown organically. The owners are the best sales force anyone could ask for and the best ad for the product.

This has ment that the class initially got off to a slightly slow start as other copy cat products that hyped the market but in the end of the day quality tells and last year and this year the MPS will be the largest selling boat of it's type by a country mile.

There is also a lot of work going on the sell boats overseas with almost 40% of all boats sold going overseas.

All this bodes well for a long-term international class.

Rick

it really is as easy as buying any SMOD off the shelf. You go to RMW (or Aadvark or Bloodaxe) and you say you want a Cherub. They make you one. You collect it. You go sailing. Where's the difficult part in that? And then you own and race the only twin trapeze boat for lightweights! With the new rules just passed, what better time to buy because there is likely to be a gap before the next development comes along.

[/QUOTE]

I hate to tell you this but the 29er X is coming out and that really will be a one design twin trapeze boat for lightweights

So cherubs will once again become a more extreme development version of another boat

But how long will the 29erX last? (Rhetorical question, i don't want an answer)

This takes us back to the beginning of the argument and so on and so forth!

The very fact that the Bethwaites have developed the 29erX is the perfect demonstration of why SMOD's fade. How may people are going to sail 29ers now? Don't you think everyone will now buy and sail the 29erX? Therefore the standard 29er will fade away, loose all their value, etc. etc.

And then how long before the 29erY comes along, and the 29erX will then fade away. The life cycle of an SMOD.

Has there been any details of the 29erX released from an official source .. I think this may be a bit of idle gossip.

Well the 29er is the ISAF Youth boat next year, so I think its future is pretty bright! (There will be lots of boats at the Weymouth Youth Nationals next year!)

Designs do get improved (the 49er is now a better build, especially the mast and sails) but will not get replaced, ten years and still going strong!

29erX is designed to full a specific gap ("49er" Olympic performance boat for Women).

The 29er is designed for Youths and is by the sound of it much easier to sail than the 29erX.

Full details may be found on Bethwaite website...

The current ISAF Youth boat is currently the 420.

How can you say the point all the kids want to sail the 29erX is not far off when the boat has not even been made yet!!

It was you who said the 29er was the ISAF youth boat. Your confusing yourself, and me with it!

And what I'm saying is that WHEN the 29erX comes out all the kids will want to sail it.

Sorry to be clear the 420 is the current boat and the 29er will be....

I am sure as you put it "all the kids" want to sail the 49er but the fact is they do not. They sail the 29er, as it is appropriate for the skill/size of the sailors...

Is the 29erX not going to be designed for a similiar weight and skill range to the 29er? I'm sure the majority of 29er sailors would be looking to step up to the bigger rig.

Are there any 29er sailors out there to comment on this?

At something like 3000 pounds for the new all carbon mast and new sails they can look for a long time before they actually fork out the readies...

And if you don't believe me...from our friends at Breizh Skiff...

"J'ai mailé Julian pour avoir qq infos et voici la réponse :

The present plan is that one rig will go with me to San Fran on Friday this week and another rig will go to Europe/UK again on Friday with a consignment of mast to Ovingtons.

The Canadians/US and UK/Europeans will play for the month of July and if everyone is happy , we can then comitt to a rig and rig plan on Aug 1st.

Sails will cost about $AUD 3000 and the mast complete will all the bits you need, about $AUD 4400 so about $AUD7500 will get you a rig. Presently the $AUD = $US0.77 or Euro 0.62 so its about 4300 euro complete.

C'est donc pour bientôt...  "

Dis, Blobby, tu peux traduire tout les trucs en anglais, stp ?

Oui - bref - tres cher, peut etre trop cher...

Glad to see that breizhskiff.com is an international reference !!!

Tu passes souvent Blobby ?

All this talk of sailors jumping from one class to another depending on the latest thing on the market ... we (Joe Public) are obviously driving the swings in popularity.

What happened to class loyalty? Improving within a class and gradually working your way up the results tables. The Dev't or less strict OD classes suit this, as it allows the boat to be optimised around your perferences as you discover them. You also become part of an 'extended family'.

Many SMODs are for the people who treat boats like cars ... change them every 2-3 years for the latest model and never get involved in their class ... who needs them anyway!

Maybe that's why the 'big three' tend to market them more and more as leisure boats, without sail numbers in many cases.

One or two long-term gems may emerge though.

I think that's probably a little harsh. I'd say a lot (if not most) class changes are because of factors other than 'having the latest thing' like geographical moves, family changes, personal development and change in financial situation. There aren't many people these days whose personal circumstances are static for extended periods.

Personally I've changed class at least 6 times but none of those have been because I want the latest hyped boat. There are people who have such a class loyalty that they carry on sailing boats completely unsuited to them and hate every minute of it but peer pressure dictates they struggle on.

I don't believe anyone has the right to judge others choice (or change) of class.

Have you joined the Class Association each time Matt? If you have I'll forgive you

Mostly - but I don't think that's relevant. You wouldn't expect every car/motorbike owner to join an owners group no matter how passionate they are about their vehicle.

At some points of my life and with certain classes I would have seen no benefit whatsoever in joining a class assoc.

The active associations manage the rules and direct boat developments on behalf of all owners (or members), which defines the basis on which you race and helps maintain boat values, etc

On this basis, surely every racing sailor benefits from the work of the active associations, whether or not you go to class events

It's a bit like the arguement over non trade unionists benefitting from salary increases etc won by union members (but we won't go there!)

I don't think there IS a rule that says you must be a class assoc. member to race unless it's in the sailing instructions (my club certainly doesn't require it) I could be wrong (it's been proved here on a few occasions) but can you point me to where it says this? (response to the pre-edited post)

These are benefits the class gets from me being a member not what I get if I just want to race my boat locally and never intend selling it. It's NOTHING like trade unions by the way.

Hypothetically - if I don't go to TT events I see no benefit from being a class assoc. member. A car sticker certainly doen't cover it!

Yar vill pey ze claZZ associazion fee Meiner frund! or elze be zent to zee spezial kamp fer der nun payerz schweinen!

Come on we are not a total police state (well not quite yet..........)  !

So, making events attractive to draw owners into the circuit should be the prime focus for wanabe upwardly mobile classes.

For small (<1000 boat) classes with few (<50) members and consequently limited financial resource, i.e. the make or break classes, what's the key?

You know what? I really have no idea. I just know that for me attending opens is a big deal. Even an event 30 miles away was very expensive/uncomfortable and fairly unrewarding - just getting my boat there was such an ordeal that I really didn't enjoy it that much.

I'm a bit isolated from my fleet and I want to stay in touch and progress by keeping up to date with the way the boat is being rigged and sailed and thereby improving my performance at home so I persevere.

No, because they are not participating in a sport. You, on the other hand are racing in a class whose rules are administered by the class association. If you think that administration comes with no effort, try doing it for a few years.

What makes a Contender a Contender? Answer, conformation to class rules. Even if you are racing handicap, it is the conformation to class rules that allows meaningful PYs to be assigned. So even as a club member racing handicap, you are benefiting from the work of the class association. And if you don't pay, you are getting a free ride off the backs of those who do.  

To answer your question on whether class membership is required, for club sailing, it is up to the club. For Opens, you need a valid class certifcate to enter and for any class I've ever sailed in, no class membership, no valid class certificate.

yes getting people onto the events cuircit is a very important part of making a class sucessful I believe, The key to this is some what tricky though, it does depend a lot on the people that are in the class, having people who are willing to help others get to events sometimes helps, like if someone has a spare space on a double stack trailer (or a spare towbar etc) then taking a new person allong and showing them what its like. Get them hooked on the traveling so they wil go on their own accord next time then both can introduce new people etc... (the long cycle)

also having jsut general get to gether style things at events helps becuase if the new people get to know more people they are liekly to come back. And the general attitude of people helps say if someone breaks something and everyone else helps out (or offers to) then it is more likely to make the class more attractive.
thats realy hard to word correctly, but the friendlier the people in a class the more the class is likely to grow out of recomendations from person to person which is what a small (<1000) class with few (<50) people [less budget] would have to do - in my oppinion.

What happened to make the journey such an ordeal? You can get a Contender rigged from being on the trailer in 10 minutes

I'll have to admit to not being a member of any class assocation at the moment. In that time I've been to quite a few open meetings (which incidentally are entirely run by the clubs that host them and not the class assocations). No doubt when I go to the nationals, I'll have to hand over my £25 for each class and then apparently get nothing in return for it (Except perhaps the odd newsletter which I'll already have seen everything in it because it's been on the web site).

Class assocations don't need money - the concept of a class newsletter is pretty much pointless now almost everyone has internet access. What they need is people to help put together travellers' series results, update the website, keep the rules up to date, organise training days etc. Those people won't expect to be paid, so why should the membership fee be any more than a few pounds to cover costs of posting out the membership cards, and pay for web hosting.

If class assocation membership was, say £5 per boat per year a lot more people would join than the effective £50 per boat per year for a two handed boat.

To provide a similar comparison, I am a member of a group promoting the interests of drivers and fighting back against the anti-car lobby. For £17 a year I get 6 newsletters, and a load of discounts off useful items. I'm not what you what describe as an active member of this association, but the benefits make it worthwhile me joining, as well as enabling them to be more effective when it comes to making press releases etc. National newspapers are more likely to listen to a group of several thousand people rather than if it were just the relatively small number of people who are actively campaigning.

They don't, actually. There is a significant number of people who don't have access at home and have no interest in getting it, and a growing number of companies coming down hard on access from work. 

When I helped run a class association it cost me significant amounts of money for travel to committee meetings and so on, and I certainly didn't expect to be paid. However we needed part-time paid secretarial support for sending out mail-shots and so on, for the simple reason that nobody was prepared to spend their time doing it for nothing. That was the main reason our membership was around £50 a year.

Also; there is a big assumption that you can get decent webdesign done for free; you cant unless you are lucky. Because of that most class assocation sites are pretty poor and not frequently updated.

The reality of the time poor modern wage slave is that the level of voluntery labour available is going down all the time so if you want a professionally run class you should expact to pay a little.

It constantly amazes me how tight people are over paying the class association fee. In the scheme of a years entertainment it's a tiny figure.

It's down to the class assocaition to make it attractive with a benefits package.

http://www.mustoskiff.com/class-association-pages/class-association-benefits.htm - http://www.mustoskiff.com/class-association-pages/class-asso ciation-benefits.htm

Item 2 means you get your membership fee back in spades if you are loyal to the brand.

Rick

Fair point about cars not racing but you seem to be misunderstanding me. I am a member of the Contender assoc and I personally believe you should join your class assoc. I am also a member of the RYA and the RNLI so I'm not arguing out of some form of guilty conscience. I have never said administration comes with no effort - I have known several people who are frequently run ragged by the the demands of the job THEY VOLUNTEERED FOR.

What I've been saying (you can check above) is that for the average club racer there is no perceivable benefit in joining the association. If the association holds a class together then there has to be more perceivable benefit to joining or people just won't. And it is a big deal going to an open compared to sailing at you home club especially if you don't do it too often. (45 mins by the way Ian).

Spot on Knightmare!

I travelled a 500 mile round trip this weekend for an open at Burghfield (Reading). Coaching by Jon Emmett on the Saturday (with team racing, which was an eye-opener to me and great fun - thanks Jon) and then three races on the Sunday. Camping at the club. Good pub just around the corner. Best weekend I've had in ages!

In a small class, spreading the word around the clubs that are missing out is very difficult, where there's only one or two boats at many clubs. Seems to me that very few owners read the yachting press or visit class web-sites.

Class racing is definitely a habit worth developing!