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Heavy Weights vs Light Weights

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tmoore View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tmoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Heavy Weights vs Light Weights
    Posted: 25 Nov 07 at 6:16pm
have to agree with skiffybob. but in medium conditions where the lightweights are depowering and the heavies keep all the power on, lightweights lose out big time upwind. no difference downwind though.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RedOnesGoFaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 07 at 6:24pm
I think that the middle conditions also need to be considered in this - as a light weight I am good in the light stuff, the the heavy the advantage downwind and the disadvantage up are just about cancelling each other out. It is the middling force 3-4 that I struggle in upwind with no significant speed edge down......
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Prince Buster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 07 at 6:26pm
An edge in speed downwind never ever compensates for a lack of speed upwind.  Upwind speed is way more important that's where races are won and lost.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote timeintheboat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 07 at 7:12pm
What are the top teams coming in at in GP14s, Wayfarers - errr others (Kestrels, Albacores?) - i.e the heavier hiking boats.

it might be a useful stat if the top 5 (-10)  teams could be weighed at the Nationals and with a summary of the wind conditions it would give a good indication whether weight is such a major factor - do any classes do this (other than SB3, Dragon(?))


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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 07 at 10:00pm

In the higher performance boats I have noticed it certainly pays to be on the light side. 

Generally speaking the rigs are very adjustable and can be depowered upwind.  In addition with light crews they get on the plane at lower wind speeds.  In higher wind speeds they plane faster if lighter. Finally the high performance boats generally have very little rocker which means they drag their transoms easily and don't easily lift them out of the water when trimmed by the bow.

One more thing, in high performance boats the downwid speed is more important to overal postion than with other boats and this is just where the lightwieghts score.  Consequently I'm on a diet.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote giraffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 07 at 10:31pm
I tend to sail at an above average weight in my class.  I think that the very best lightweights have an advantage across all wind strengths that we race in.  There are 2 caveats.  If you want to win a Championship whilst sailing light you need to be exceptionally fit and your boat handling must be first class.  You do not have weight/power to get yourself out of sticky situations and you need to be able to fight like anything to get off the start line in hiking conditions.  If you can do these things then you can do very well.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 07 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by Prince Buster

An edge in speed downwind never ever compensates for a lack of speed upwind.  Upwind speed is way more important that's where races are won and lost.


I would disagree here i am afraid. It does depends on the boat and the offwind angles.

For instance yesterday we had a course with some good reaching angles in (including 1 long tight reach). I found that Upwind I was holding my own with the Phantoms and Scorpions and Lasers (overall). Offwind I was doing all the damage on the tight reach. i could get up and plane no-one else could. This meant I could pull out around 20-30s on one leg. As long as I got the rest right I could hold my own and just sneak away. I did make an almighty c*ck up of the start and came through very quickly again thanks to the reaching legs.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 07 at 1:04pm
agree with Jeffers here, talking singlehanders; boats like Blaze and IC's really excel on tight reaches and the weight carrying (or otherwise) will be off-set by the relative performance against PY by these boats in handicap races on courses with long fetches where it's marginal planing + conditions.  In other boats (e.g. Laser, Solo, Phantom) a bit more bulk in marginal stuff can also help when fetching and going upwind but is probably a handicap versus light weights on downwind legs like broad reaches or runs

... incidentally, there is a good debate about weight carrying on the merlin rocket forum, it's a class-centric view but interesting none the less as it also brings in the recent design and development advantages in the rigs that MR's allow to the picture
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 07 at 1:34pm

i think in almost every instance, its much easier to depower, than generate more (legal!) power in your rig and so its better to be light. It does mean that the heavy people can go flat out for longer but the benefits are gained downwind too if you are light. If you're too light, then yes, your performance is hindered but a small proportion lighter than your opposition is usually an advantage.

if its a shifty up and down day, then it generally favours the lighter teams that can keep moving through the lighter patches - in the windy areas, they dont lose as much as the heavier teams do when they are sat in the boat, whilst the light guys are fully powered up.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 07 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by Prince Buster

An edge in speed downwind never ever compensates for a lack of speed upwind. 


It depends massively on the boat. In more traditional classes where you can't actually go much faster no matter what you do this is the case, but in high speed boats its quite another matter. In the Cherubs, a class I know something about, all development from about 1968 to around 1988 was in downwind speed. A 1988 boat would literally go 50% faster than a 1968 boat downhill. No upwind speed advantage could match a differential like that...
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