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Best Handicapped Boat? |
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5420 
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Joined: 16 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 622 |
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 Topic: Best Handicapped Boat?Posted: 02 Feb 06 at 1:29pm |
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iv been reading all of theas and im suprised that no one has not said about the albercorn it has the best handy cap there is from what iv heard they can win at any place in any condishons
we should all get them for handy cap racing
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jeffers
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Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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Posted: 01 Feb 06 at 3:35pm |
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Hmmm many comments here. Time for my 2p.
At my local club (small pond) the Phantoms have pretty much cleaned up over the last 18 months or so (since the advent of carbon masts and new hull construction). There is a movement within the club to change the PY to ensure fair racing (see the letter in the current issue of Y&Y regarding PYs and requests for redress). However to throw this in to the mix... Our Ice Breaker series last year was won by a Laser (shock horror I hear you say). Why was this.... Simply the person sailing the boat (yours truly) was a bit porky and it was windy. The Phantoms were having to spill and foot off left right and centre, I just wound on the cunningham and blew them away upwind, managed to hold them offwind. Just goes to show that it is down to conditions as well as boat. It has been agreed in the club that something needs to be done if the RYA PY panel do not make a significant adjustment (it was 1 point faster last year if memory serves). I have gone for the 'if you can't beat them joint them' and bought a Blaze which will hopefully get me closer to them than I can get in the lighter winds at the moment. Paul |
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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5420
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Joined: 16 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 622 |
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Posted: 01 Feb 06 at 11:10am |
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no the vareo is almost pointless going handy cap racing in as you wont do well but if the forcast for it gets better i may go in a 200 |
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Hector
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Joined: 10 May 04 Location: Otley, Yorkshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 750 |
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Posted: 01 Feb 06 at 12:26am |
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Higher? Or Lower? Are you going to the Tiger - sailing within a fleet of 50 or so 420s might be illuminating! |
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5420
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Joined: 16 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 622 |
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Posted: 31 Jan 06 at 11:18am |
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our handy cap has not changed yet but it needs to fast |
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Paramedic
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Joined: 27 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 929 |
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Posted: 31 Jan 06 at 8:41am |
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There are loads of one designs that have changed very significantly (and recently in nearly all cases!) and had no change in yardstick. GP14, Fireball, Phantom, Lark, FD, the list goes on! I think the best way forward rather than to trim their yardsticks, it would be both easier and more effective to give classes that have not changed at all a PY increase. This is bourne out by the fact that a new GP14 is proved, at our club anyway, to be at least as fast as a new Enterprise and a new Solo is not all that much slower than either. The other problem is that most classes have specific conditions in which they excel. If we take a Merlin (Which performs to it's PY over pretty much the whole range) and compare it to a Fireball and an Enterprise in a blow or medium conditions the Ent will be left behind but the Ball and the Merlin should have a good race (On handicap). In lighter stuff the Ball will be the boat left behind. Then you still have the problem of Hydro Moths Cherubs and Canoes, and I honestly don't see the point in even trying to handicap those on a national basis. I think the best way of dealing with those classes is to not issue a number at all and let clubs sort them out if and when they turn up to handicap race. |
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Hector
Really should get out more
Joined: 10 May 04 Location: Otley, Yorkshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 750 |
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Posted: 31 Jan 06 at 1:49am |
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The question was phrased to include performance over a variety of conditions and sized ponds etc. BTW It was a bit windy at Northampton for the Steve Nicholson and Phantoms absolutely wiped the floor with the opposition in the singlehanders and Fireballs dominated the doublehanders (excepting a very well sailed 420).
All things certainly should be equal but they probably aren't. The data is incomplete and therefore flawed. For instance, many clubs don't send returns. In some classes the hot shots don't club race often enough to affect returns. Crew skill factor is used by some clubs but not others, and some big returns are, I hear disallowed because they deviate too far from what's expected for the Primary Classes (Hayling Island I believe). Your point about development is also valid as the yardstick has indeed to 'catch up'. This obviously applies to development classes - most noticeably I14s when they added T foils, 12s when they became self draining, Merlins when they figured out the carbon rigs at the same time as hitting an 'optimal' hull shape (at least for now), and dare I even mention the Cherub? But this also applies to any 'one designs' that also change significantly without a noticable (and immediate) effect on their Yardstick. Examples might be the the Blaze, V3000, any class that suddenly allows carbon masts and there must be others. All just just got plain quicker but the Yardstick doesn't move for at least a year and even then it moves slowly. I've heard that the ratings committee don't like to make big adjustments on comparitively little data! This could be an old wives tale - does anyone know how they work out adjustments to Yardsticks? Perhaps the question I should have asked is "What boat should you avoid if you want to win handicap races?"
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Sarah B
Groupie 
Joined: 15 Mar 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 92 |
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Posted: 30 Jan 06 at 9:46pm |
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The Europe rocks on handicap. As turnturtle said - small ponds, light winds, lots of offwind sailing in a hull which is about 10kg if not more lighter than a Laser, with the same sail area as a standard rig - yeehah! Sadly the Radial is not quite so generous.
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A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
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Blobby
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Joined: 07 May 04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 779 |
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Posted: 29 Jan 06 at 9:49pm |
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Wayfarer for force 0 - 2 beating and running... 420 for force 7 - 8... Alternatively something like a 12ft skiff or 18ft skiff in 1 - 3 since you can stick the monster rags on and be fully powered while everyone else is drifting... |
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JimC
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Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 28 Jan 06 at 3:30pm |
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More I think that Laser sailors are focussed on beating the next Laser rather than beating the clock. I see it a lot at my club, where we have some pretty hot Laser Sailors. If one gets well clear up the first beat he'll be well up there, often win on handicap. Id, as is more common, there are three or four of them changing places then they'll be nowhere on handicap. handicap racing is a deifferent game with a different emphasis, and if tht's the game you're into you probably won't be buying a Laser! Add that to the fact that the top Laser sailors are so convinced they can't win on handicap that they don't enter the big events and... probably also fair to say that in the "every dog has its day stakes" the Laser doesn't really get one, and in most conditions there'll be something that will star more. This evens out over a series, which makes the handicap good for club racing in a series, but ain't much help if you want to win the Bloody Mary or the Grafham Grand prix. As for an overall handicap bandit - no such thing, the system works pretty well. I've never found Fireballs any particular issue except in the conditions that suit a long thin boat wih moderate sail area that's not especially fast for its size. I always figured that was just their turn (as we hammered them in the conditions that suited us). However I did notice that the Gull PY, last time it was listed, had got much more favourable than it was when I sailed them thirty five years ago and there was serious racing in them. Get a decent wood one, get it down to weight and worked up with new rags etc and it could be a decent option for a couple of mirror squad sailors... Edited by JimC |
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