On the basis that we all like to win, what boat should we buy to give ourselves the best chance in handicap races? Assume it will be sailed in a wide variety of conditions.

If it's to be sailed in a variety of conditions and venues, then all things should be equal as the ratings are based on statistical analysis of race results.  The only way I can imagine you could beat the system is to either sail a boat which never competes in handicap races and as a result hasn't got a statistically valid handicap or get your self a boat where development has improved speed but the rating hasn't caught up, I14, N12, Cherub, Moth etc

Ian

Easy peasy.  Learn to sail a MPS properly and then you are quids in.  As the boat is so difficult to sail, the average spash factor is high.  Thus the Handicap reflects this as the handicap is based on the actual results of the people who sail it, not the potential spped of the boats.

This also means that a fair % of the time is just keeping the stick above the plate and so someone who knows how to sail the boat really well and so makes many less mistakes will sail well above the handicap (that is derived from the average sailor).

This IMO also shows why the laser rarely does well in handicap event as there are many people sailing it and so the handicap has been driven down to the level where the boat is sailing to it's theoretical limit (well nearly, not may olly sailors do handicap events)

Or choose a class where the handicap is based on the performance of some mediocre sailors. Were such a class to exist, of course.

True but not always of course, in light winds the handicap is hard to hold - if you look at the classes that have won the most winter classics over the years it has to be the Fireball.

Rick

Wayfarer for force 0 - 2 beating and running...

420 for force 7 - 8...

Alternatively something like a 12ft skiff or 18ft skiff in 1 - 3 since you can stick the monster rags on and be fully powered while everyone else is drifting...

The question was phrased to include performance over a variety of conditions and sized ponds etc.

BTW It was a bit windy at Northampton for the Steve Nicholson and Phantoms absolutely wiped the floor with the opposition in the singlehanders and Fireballs dominated the doublehanders (excepting a very well sailed 420).

All things certainly should be equal but they probably aren't. The data is incomplete and therefore flawed. For instance, many clubs don't send returns. In some classes the hot shots don't club race often enough to affect returns. Crew skill factor is used by some clubs but not others, and some big returns are, I hear disallowed because they deviate too far from what's expected for the Primary Classes (Hayling Island I believe).

Your point about development is also valid as the yardstick has indeed to 'catch up'. This obviously applies to development classes  -  most noticeably  I14s when they added T foils, 12s when they became self draining, Merlins when they figured out the carbon rigs at the same time as hitting an 'optimal' hull shape (at least for now), and dare I even mention the Cherub?  But this also applies to any 'one designs'  that also change significantly without a noticable (and immediate) effect on their Yardstick. Examples might be the the Blaze, V3000,  any class that suddenly allows carbon masts and there must be others.

All just just got plain quicker but the Yardstick doesn't move for at least a year and even then it moves slowly.  I've heard that the ratings committee don't like to make big adjustments on comparitively little data! This could be an old wives tale - does anyone know how they work out adjustments to Yardsticks?

Perhaps the question I should have asked is

"What boat should you avoid if you want to win handicap races?"

There are loads of one designs that have changed very significantly (and recently in nearly all cases!) and had no change in yardstick. GP14, Fireball, Phantom, Lark, FD, the list goes on!

I think the best way forward rather than to trim their yardsticks, it would be both easier and more effective to give classes that have not changed at all a PY increase.

This is bourne out by the fact that a new GP14 is proved, at our club anyway, to be at least as fast as a new Enterprise and a new Solo is not all that much slower than either.

The other problem is that most classes have specific conditions in which they excel. If we take a Merlin (Which performs to it's PY over pretty much the whole range) and compare it to a Fireball and an Enterprise in a blow or medium conditions the Ent will be left behind but the Ball and the Merlin should have a good race (On handicap). In lighter stuff the Ball will be the boat left behind.

Then you still have the problem of Hydro Moths Cherubs and Canoes, and I honestly don't see the point in even trying to handicap those on a national basis. I think the best way of dealing with those classes is to not issue a number at all and let clubs sort them out if and when they turn up to handicap race.

our handy cap has not changed yet but it needs to fast

Higher? Or Lower?

Are you going to the Tiger - sailing within a fleet of 50 or so 420s might be illuminating!

no the vareo is almost pointless going handy cap racing in as you wont do well

but if the forcast for it gets better i may go in a 200

iv been reading all of theas and im suprised that no one has not said about the albercorn it has the best handy cap there is from what iv heard they can win at any place in any condishons

we should all get them for handy cap racing

How about

albercorn ---  Thats a new one to me old chap, never heard of one of those , toodle pip !

Now why have you gone and done that?  My experience of sailing Blazes is that they are terrible in light wind.....they're also impossible to tack.  Go the whole hog and buy a Phantom....

Thanks for the links Jim - very informative.

It tells us "This goes to a committee which so some final sanity checks before the number gets published".

Do you know when this RYA committee meets, and who is on it?

Hi Hector,

Stuart Cresswell chairs this committee which is known as the RYA Portsmouth Yardstick Advisory Group. He has just  won the 'Prize Letter' in the current edition of Y & Y for an article named 'Over Handicapped', check it out in W.H. Smith's.  Also, if you run Stuart's name and 'RYA' on Google, there are a couple of interesting articles from Scotland about how the system works in practice.  This topic cropped up in another thread a few months ago and I provided similar information.

Ian   (Yorkshire Dales S.C.)