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redback View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Olympic Classes
    Posted: 27 May 04 at 10:27pm

I sail an asymmetric too - so I know what you are talking about.  However the tactics are a little less complicated in as much as they generally amount to which corner to bang.  I'm talking upwind of course.  Down wind they make up for it by being much more tactical than the conventional spinnaker boats and also much more tactical than single sailed boats.

But what about my idea that this sort of boat is less sensitive to weight?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Skiffman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 04 at 8:40pm

Thats what I was thinking, wouldn't something like a RS700 or Musto skiff? I think a Musto Skiff would be better seeeing as they have a larger fleet around the world, not big but still bigger than the RS700. They are both athletic boats and are require a great level of skill to do well in.

 

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Neil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Neil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 04 at 4:41pm

Redback,

Any asymmetric, including the single handers are just as tactically difficult to sail as any other single hander...

Tacking has a penalty in distance, and so picking the shifts is important, but getting the right side of the course to start with is more so.. but they really get into their tactical element downwind... mixing a combination of boat speed versus direction eg getting the best VMG is the most difficult aspect, alongside picking the right places to gybe, which downwind mark to round, and how to get the inside track at the marks...and this is why the best guys are really fast..

For sure these are different tactics, but they are still challenging to get right, and only the elite few get it right all the time...

I personally think that a single hander asymm would add another huge spectator element to Olympic sailing, but I would because I sail one!

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Neil



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redback View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 04 at 2:35pm

By the way the Europe is a lovely boat to sail - a real thorough bred.  For those in the right weight range it must be a joy and also one of the fastest non-trapeze single handers (for their weight).

However I do feel an olympic boat should be very fast, spectacular even, since the sailors should be our most able.  This probably means a trapeze boat and since the olympics are sailed on the sea, why not?  I think we are talking RS700/Musto Skiff.  I also think these sorts of boats are less sensitive to weight, since agility is the primary determinant.

However boats like this are not good at tatics?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 04 at 12:52pm

>>the fastest boat on the water at my club is a Phantom. 

>>The slowest boat in our fast handicap fleet is the firefly.

All clubs are different - which makes the sport all the more interesting:

 

There is a club on the East Coast I visit often that has the RS400 as one of the slowest boats in the Fast Handicap fleet - and the 400 is quite a bit faster than the Phantom. Compared to 49er, RS700, RS800, Tornado and Spitfire's etc., the 400 is relatively slow.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ent Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 04 at 12:22pm

The class finally selected will have to be sailed widely around the world to allow the greatest participation of nations. I suspect that this will be one of the selection criteria used to make the final descision.

It is difficult to make a decision based on what start the boat starts in at a club.  At smaller clubs we don't have many trapeez boats and the fastest boat on the water at my club is a Phantom.  The slowest boat in our fast handicap fleet is the firefly.

Needles to say a good sailor can always sail above thier handicap when racing against less experienced sailors in faster handicaped boats.  It's all relative.

I agree that Britain will do well if the selected class is widely sailed in this country. I can't comment on other countries though.

Do the RYA read this forum?

Campaign for longer weekends and therefore more sailing!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sarah B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 04 at 2:46pm

Granite, I start and race with the Lasers and Radials. It is pretty cool as I have a benchmark and they provide good competition. I definitely wouldn't say the Europe is a slow boat as I usually beat some of the them over the water!!

The only problem I do have is the Wednesday evening starts where we have all classes on the start line at once - 30-45 boats ranging from me being the slowest to Hobies and 49ers. Getting clear air is then an issue - but the best thing is to start around the super fast boats as they sail away so quick you soon have cleaner air back again.

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Granite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 04 at 1:54pm

I think that an important question should be is the boat good to sail at a grass roots level?

With that in mind I think that it should be fast. The Europe is a great boat to sail but to my mind is too slow.

If you are club racing the Lasers will probably get a class start the fast handicaps get a class start (and race away hanging from a wire) you are left with the Europe in the slow handicap with the toppers.

This is not an image that I feel sits well with the idea of an Olympic class.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sarah B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 04 at 2:43pm
Originally posted by Jon Emmett

I can understand it being extremely hard to put together an Ozzy Europe campaign due to logistic problems alone.

It will be very interesting to see ISAF choice regards Olympic classes in November.

I agree that the ISAF choice will be interesting, and in particularly if they make public their debate about how they came to their decision. I think they are first discussing it 5-6 June in the US.

As for the logistical issues of putting together an Olympic campaign from the Southern Hemisphere - perhaps this is a flaw with the Olympic classes circuit as a whole rather than the choice of classes? With the next Olympics in China, should there be more Grade 1 regattas outside of Europe? I accept this would increase travelling costs, but would it encourage a wider level of participation? Is this not what ISAF is striving at?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon Emmett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 04 at 2:23pm

In Iain Percy's defence, I think the reason he did not reach his true potential (sailing legend) in the Laser class is his natural body weight in 90KGs+... not ideal laser weight!

I quite agree that the weight range is wider for the Radial than people think. It just gets pushed up or down if the event is windy or light, like any other class... What tends to happen is people sail better at the top end of the weight range as they have more experience then (and the youths gradually gain weight with time...)

Virtually all the UK Europe sailors have come from Radials. I can understand it being extremely hard to put together an Ozzy Europe campaign due to logistic problems alone.

Regards the costs I am always happy to jump into a borrowed/charter Laser and race competitively... I cannot think of another class where this is the same! There is certainly never a need to keep spending money (other than on sails!) to remain competitive.

 

It will be very interesting to see ISAF choice regards Olympic classes in November.

 

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