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Blobby 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 07 May 04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 779 |
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 Topic: RS500 ...Posted: 14 Dec 05 at 12:53am |
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Clearly the COntender is the ultimate singlehander. I believe it was the first trapeze single hander. And I believe being the first of its type, reading one of Jim's definitions, gives it the right to claim to be the ultimate singlehander...
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Matt Jackson
Really should get out more
Joined: 21 Sep 04 Location: Darlington Online Status: Offline Posts: 962 |
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Posted: 13 Dec 05 at 5:28pm |
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Stop. my head hurts.
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Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36
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Black no sugar
Really should get out more
Joined: 04 Dec 04 Location: Somewhere between Brighton and Lancing Online Status: Offline Posts: 3941 |
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Posted: 13 Dec 05 at 5:22pm |
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Now Matt, try to prove it's a waste of time to disprove the meaningless claim of trying to disprove the wild assertion quoted above...
 
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Matt Jackson
Really should get out more
Joined: 21 Sep 04 Location: Darlington Online Status: Offline Posts: 962 |
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Posted: 13 Dec 05 at 5:13pm |
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Duh! Mark, are we alowed to use the word Anal on the forum? The point I was making when I said it's never been disproved is that although it winds some people up |
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Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36
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JimC
Really should get out more
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 13 Dec 05 at 3:58pm |
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Oh grief folks, read the dictionary. Words are what separate us fron the apes. I dislike using them badly. It is in no way denigrating any boat to say its not the ultimate sailboat because there is no such thing. Does it mean its not a very good single hander - clearly not. Does it mean its not an excepional singlehander - absolutely not. Does it mean its not the best singlehander - best is pretty meaningless. Sail it on a tiny gravel pit with 3 feet depth of water and its a nightmare, same as everything I like sailing is. You say the Contender is of the highest quality. Quite possibly, I have no view on the subject. But if you say its of the highest quality then you are implying there are other boats of the highest quality. So its not ultimate, so actually you agree with me... You say the 14 is *AN* exceptional sailing boat. That means you think there are other exceptional sailing boats. I think you're right: quite a few actually. But that also means its not ultimate. So actually you agree with me... |
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allanorton
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 21 Nov 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 228 |
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Posted: 13 Dec 05 at 3:05pm |
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I think Jim C is wrong, the Contender is of the highest quality, also its hardly rare with a 51 boat turnout at the last open meeting! Has he ever sailed a contender? I think the are one of the most enjoyable boats to sail, especially when racing in 50+ sized fleets. As for the I14 claiming to be the ultimate, I would totally agree that this is another exceptional class of sailing boat. |
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NeilP
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 23 Nov 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 271 |
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Posted: 13 Dec 05 at 2:32pm |
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Jim - one-design restrictions are there to stop you making it different, not necessarily better. Define better? Better does not necessarily mean faster. "Of the highest quality" can only be in the judgement of someone. I could quite easily imagine people believing a Contender to be "of the highest quality" Numbers built has nothing to do with how "pleasing" a boat may be. No-one could possibly claim that a Laser is pleasing upwind in 6 knots - or 20 knots come to that! So there are huge fleets all over the world,does that make it pleasing? By that measure the Toyota Corolla is the most pleasing car in the world... None of your arguments work, whichever way you cut it. If I didn't know better I might think you've got a bit of a chip on your shoulder Neil |
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No FD? No Comment!
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Black no sugar
Really should get out more
Joined: 04 Dec 04 Location: Somewhere between Brighton and Lancing Online Status: Offline Posts: 3941 |
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Posted: 13 Dec 05 at 1:40pm |
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Phew! Feeling better now? If you want exaggerated claims of superiority weeded out of websites, you've got a job and a half, Jim! (if they're happy to say they're the best, why not let them? After all, you don't have to believe it |
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JimC
Really should get out more
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 13 Dec 05 at 1:24pm |
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Cambridge on Line Dictionary
Right. Its clearly not the most extreme singlehander, its clearly not (by neither numbers or international distribution) the most important, its definitely neither the orginal singlehander nor the final singlehander, I don't suppose you're claining its the worst, so the onlty possible claim on the work ultimate is that its the "best" singlehander. The claim's looking very rocky already. Now lets go back to the same source for a definition of best.
Well clearly not of the highest quality, otherwise there wouldn't be one design restrictions which prevent you making it better. Most suitable? Means very little in this context - the Contender may be the most suitable boat for Contender racing as no others are allowed, but that's true of any class. Pleasing? No, you can't see a boat which is as rare as the Contnder is especially pleasing, the Laser wins the popularity contest hands down. Effective? Again effective for what, but in terms of speed, ease of handling or any other factors there are clearly superior boats in any factor. About all you could claim is its a compromise sonme people like. Right, that disproves that claim (which is equally ridiculous for every other class that makes it in any way, 14 class please note). Going to get it taken off your website? |
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grimupnorth
Groupie 
Joined: 08 Dec 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 48 |
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Posted: 13 Dec 05 at 1:20pm |
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You're quite right that it's less stessful to have a fast boat, but I can't agree about boat prep being less time-consuming than practice. I'm no rock star, and I can't imagine ever being so good that a couple of hours practice on the water won't help me improve something about my boat handling. Two hours on the water vs two hours fairing my foils? No contest. And with practice sessions, I see the result straight away - with boat prep, the reward is at best deferred, and at worst uncertain. Boat prep is necessary, but not fun! |
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it is a meaningless claim and trying to disprove it would be a waste of time taken on only by those to whom no-one listens 
. ahem.|
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