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Classes fading in popularity

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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Classes fading in popularity
    Posted: 27 Jun 05 at 2:06pm
My point exactly - the way some people talk (normally those who do work for the associations) we should all feel guilty about non-membership. But I really can't see how the majority of club sailors benefit.

Edited by Matt Jackson
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yellowhammer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowhammer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 05 at 2:35pm
Originally posted by Matt Jackson

Hypothetically - if I don't go to TT events I see no benefit from being a class assoc. member. A car sticker certainly doen't cover it!

So, making events attractive to draw owners into the circuit should be the prime focus for wanabe upwardly mobile classes.

For small (<1000 boat) classes with few (<50) members and consequently limited financial resource, i.e. the make or break classes, what's the key?

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 05 at 2:45pm

You know what? I really have no idea. I just know that for me attending opens is a big deal. Even an event 30 miles away was very expensive/uncomfortable and fairly unrewarding - just getting my boat there was such an ordeal that I really didn't enjoy it that much.

I'm a bit isolated from my fleet and I want to stay in touch and progress by keeping up to date with the way the boat is being rigged and sailed and thereby improving my performance at home so I persevere.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 05 at 2:58pm

Originally posted by Matt Jackson

Mostly - but I don't think that's relevant. You wouldn't expect every car/motorbike owner to join an owners group no matter how passionate they are about their vehicle.

No, because they are not participating in a sport. You, on the other hand are racing in a class whose rules are administered by the class association. If you think that administration comes with no effort, try doing it for a few years.

What makes a Contender a Contender? Answer, conformation to class rules. Even if you are racing handicap, it is the conformation to class rules that allows meaningful PYs to be assigned. So even as a club member racing handicap, you are benefiting from the work of the class association. And if you don't pay, you are getting a free ride off the backs of those who do.  

To answer your question on whether class membership is required, for club sailing, it is up to the club. For Opens, you need a valid class certifcate to enter and for any class I've ever sailed in, no class membership, no valid class certificate.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote KnightMare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 05 at 3:02pm

yes getting people onto the events cuircit is a very important part of making a class sucessful I believe, The key to this is some what tricky though, it does depend a lot on the people that are in the class, having people who are willing to help others get to events sometimes helps, like if someone has a spare space on a double stack trailer (or a spare towbar etc) then taking a new person allong and showing them what its like. Get them hooked on the traveling so they wil go on their own accord next time then both can introduce new people etc... (the long cycle)

also having jsut general get to gether style things at events helps becuase if the new people get to know more people they are liekly to come back. And the general attitude of people helps say if someone breaks something and everyone else helps out (or offers to) then it is more likely to make the class more attractive.
thats realy hard to word correctly, but the friendlier the people in a class the more the class is likely to grow out of recomendations from person to person which is what a small (<1000) class with few (<50) people [less budget] would have to do - in my oppinion.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 05 at 3:13pm
Originally posted by Matt Jackson

You know what? I really have no idea. I just know that for me attending opens is a big deal. Even an event 30 miles away was very expensive/uncomfortable and fairly unrewarding - just getting my boat there was such an ordeal that I really didn't enjoy it that much.

What happened to make the journey such an ordeal? You can get a Contender rigged from being on the trailer in 10 minutes

I'll have to admit to not being a member of any class assocation at the moment. In that time I've been to quite a few open meetings (which incidentally are entirely run by the clubs that host them and not the class assocations). No doubt when I go to the nationals, I'll have to hand over my £25 for each class and then apparently get nothing in return for it (Except perhaps the odd newsletter which I'll already have seen everything in it because it's been on the web site).

Class assocations don't need money - the concept of a class newsletter is pretty much pointless now almost everyone has internet access. What they need is people to help put together travellers' series results, update the website, keep the rules up to date, organise training days etc. Those people won't expect to be paid, so why should the membership fee be any more than a few pounds to cover costs of posting out the membership cards, and pay for web hosting.

If class assocation membership was, say £5 per boat per year a lot more people would join than the effective £50 per boat per year for a two handed boat.

To provide a similar comparison, I am a member of a group promoting the interests of drivers and fighting back against the anti-car lobby. For £17 a year I get 6 newsletters, and a load of discounts off useful items. I'm not what you what describe as an active member of this association, but the benefits make it worthwhile me joining, as well as enabling them to be more effective when it comes to making press releases etc. National newspapers are more likely to listen to a group of several thousand people rather than if it were just the relatively small number of people who are actively campaigning.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 05 at 3:36pm

Originally posted by Ian99

Class assocations don't need money - the concept of a class newsletter is pretty much pointless now almost everyone has internet access.

They don't, actually. There is a significant number of people who don't have access at home and have no interest in getting it, and a growing number of companies coming down hard on access from work. 

When I helped run a class association it cost me significant amounts of money for travel to committee meetings and so on, and I certainly didn't expect to be paid. However we needed part-time paid secretarial support for sending out mail-shots and so on, for the simple reason that nobody was prepared to spend their time doing it for nothing. That was the main reason our membership was around £50 a year.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 05 at 5:02pm

Also; there is a big assumption that you can get decent webdesign done for free; you cant unless you are lucky. Because of that most class assocation sites are pretty poor and not frequently updated.

The reality of the time poor modern wage slave is that the level of voluntery labour available is going down all the time so if you want a professionally run class you should expact to pay a little.

It constantly amazes me how tight people are over paying the class association fee. In the scheme of a years entertainment it's a tiny figure.

It's down to the class assocaition to make it attractive with a benefits package.

http://www.mustoskiff.com/class-association-pages/class-asso ciation-benefits.htm

Item 2 means you get your membership fee back in spades if you are loyal to the brand.

Rick

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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 05 at 5:03pm
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Originally posted by Matt Jackson

Mostly - but I don't think that's relevant. You wouldn't expect every car/motorbike owner to join an owners group no matter how passionate they are about their vehicle.

No, because they are not participating in a sport. You, on the other hand are racing in a class whose rules are administered by the class association. If you think that administration comes with no effort, try doing it for a few years.

What makes a Contender a Contender? Answer, conformation to class rules. Even if you are racing handicap, it is the conformation to class rules that allows meaningful PYs to be assigned. So even as a club member racing handicap, you are benefiting from the work of the class association. And if you don't pay, you are getting a free ride off the backs of those who do.  

To answer your question on whether class membership is required, for club sailing, it is up to the club. For Opens, you need a valid class certifcate to enter and for any class I've ever sailed in, no class membership, no valid class certificate.

 

Fair point about cars not racing but you seem to be misunderstanding me. I am a member of the Contender assoc and I personally believe you should join your class assoc. I am also a member of the RYA and the RNLI so I'm not arguing out of some form of guilty conscience. I have never said administration comes with no effort - I have known several people who are frequently run ragged by the the demands of the job THEY VOLUNTEERED FOR.

What I've been saying (you can check above) is that for the average club racer there is no perceivable benefit in joining the association. If the association holds a class together then there has to be more perceivable benefit to joining or people just won't. And it is a big deal going to an open compared to sailing at you home club especially if you don't do it too often. (45 mins by the way Ian).



Edited by Matt Jackson
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yellowhammer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowhammer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 05 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by KnightMare

The key to this is some what tricky though, it does depend a lot on the people that are in the class, having people who are willing to help others get to events sometimes helps. Get them hooked on the traveling so they will go on their own accord next time then both can introduce new people etc... (the long cycle)

the friendlier the people in a class the more the class is likely to grow out of recomendations from person to person

Spot on Knightmare!

I travelled a 500 mile round trip this weekend for an open at Burghfield (Reading). Coaching by Jon Emmett on the Saturday (with team racing, which was an eye-opener to me and great fun - thanks Jon) and then three races on the Sunday. Camping at the club. Good pub just around the corner. Best weekend I've had in ages!

In a small class, spreading the word around the clubs that are missing out is very difficult, where there's only one or two boats at many clubs. Seems to me that very few owners read the yachting press or visit class web-sites.

Class racing is definitely a habit worth developing!

Laser 3000 @ Leigh & Lowton SC
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