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MattHarris View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MattHarris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Pond Sailing Suggestions
    Posted: 13 Aug 10 at 10:48am

I sail at Southport (WLYC 24 Hour Race Lake) and I'm after a new boat.  Specifications are a double hander suiting crew weights of 24-25 stone.  No trapeze, easily handled kite(not asymmetric) and be able to buy a competitive boat for around £1500.  Racing is open handicap, current boats to beat are lasers, a graduate and particularly quick mark 3 GP so would need to be at least able to compete with these in most conditions.

Current possibilities are National 12, Tasar, Scorpian or anything else anyone can suggest.  I have zero experience of any of these classes so if anyone can suggest anything or make points that would be great.

I've written off GP's (£3k for a competitive boat), Enterprises (handicap is woefully inaccurate), Merlin Rocket (cost of competitive boats and too quick) and Graduates (crew weight too heavy).

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alstorer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 10 at 11:01am
Lark? No idea what they're like on handicap, but modern ones look to be rather better boats than the one I once went round that lake very slowly in.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 10 at 11:08am

Two of your 'possibles' don't have kites.

25 stone sounds a lot for a graduate or Scorpion. It's right for a fairly big boat.

My best thought is to buy the best GP14 you can afford and learn to sail better than the other guy. If you ever beat him, you will know you are sailing better.

Some of the older Merlins may do well on handicap, and carry the weight well, depending on whether you get the proper age allowance. (see Merlin website).

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Post Options Post Options   Quote MerlinMags Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 10 at 11:15am
You can still buy a nice Merlin Rocket for £1500, which will be very suitable for a small lake, and give hours of fun. Check out the secondhand list:
http://www.merlinrocket.co.uk/secondhand/default.asp
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MattHarris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 10 at 11:51am
Originally posted by RS400atC

Two of your 'possibles' don't have kites.

Apologies, case of mind running quicker than i can type.  I was intending to  say if the class does have a kite it must be easily managable, however without a kite isn't an issue.

Originally posted by RS400atC

depending on whether you get the proper age allowance.

Sadly we're a club who are very very reluctant to move away from the published figures.  I am trying to push for a move to fairer handicaps for the lake (eg the graduate sailing off closer to its average 1107 handicap rather than published 1165), but this will take time to achieve.

Would an older Merlin be worth competing with on 1006 or is this just being eternally optimistic?  Also with no garage any painting or repairs would be very tricky.  The GP was an option but the guy sailing it came 26/27 at the nationals and the boat is very quick, i'd rather not be at a psychological disadvantage before i've even started the race sailing a Mk1 GP.

Sorry to put so many obstacles in the way of things, but thanks for your suggestions so far.

Phantom 1175 - Alice

http://www.thelostpenguin.co.uk
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GybeFunny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 10 at 12:06pm

Isnt that lake very shallow and full of weed? Does the GP have to sail with a shorter centreboard.

What makes you think the Enterprise has a bad PY, they are very suitable to a lake like yours, perhaps you have only ever seen a poorly sailed one which makes you think the PY is naff. If I were you I would go for the Enterprise.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 10 at 12:25pm
What about a kestrel? I've had a couple of goes in one lately and been very impressed. Easy to handle but not slow, nice medium sized kite - not sure on ideal weight but reckon they would take a wide range...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 10 at 12:28pm

Depends on what your goals are I suspect.

Are you looking for the best possible results on handicap?

Or are you looking to improve yourself as a sailor?

Will you be happy to chart your improvement in terms of being beaten by smaller margins? Maybe winning the start and making the others work hard?

Will people at your club think 'he's improving a lot in that old boat' or do they only respect winners? Would they just change your PY if you clean up in a bandit?

If the latter then sailing one design against someone you respect as being good seems a good way to go. If you're looking for wins on handicap, you need to dredge up something that's under-appreciated. My off the wall suggestion: Bosun. Spend most of the budget on a new rig. Don't blame me if you hate it as a boat, but I think most of them are so poorly equipped, it drags the PY up. When nobody is planing it's just another 14ft boat, but most other dinghies will leave it behind as soon as they plane. (Well, you did ask!)

When it comes to money, I'd be reluctant to borrow for a boat, but as well as the purchase cost you have to think about residual value. If you spend £4k wisely on a GP, you will stand a very high chance of getting £3k back after a year or two, whereas an obscure class can cost you less up front but lose most of it.

Alternatively spend as little as possible on anything that's the right size and get good at starting, boat handling, reading shifts etc etc But some of the running costs can be just as high, a new cover for a budget boat costs the same, insurance, boat parking, fittings, entry fees,

But I would want to go for a class with a decent association, coaching, local open meetings, secondhand sails available, tuning advice and good sailors to learn from.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 10 at 12:44pm
not being flippant but please consider the minimal drive to the coast and enjoy....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 10 at 12:48pm

Get a GP - and learn off the guy who's quite good (He'll probably be pleased to help). Don't search around for something that no-one else sails at your club.

 If you want to win because of a dodgy handicap - take up golf.

I've done enough 24hr races to think the GP h/cap is only very slightly more favourable than the Enterprise - but not very much and Ents certainly can have their day.

Keith
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