I sail at Southport (WLYC 24 Hour Race Lake) and I'm after a new boat.  Specifications are a double hander suiting crew weights of 24-25 stone.  No trapeze, easily handled kite(not asymmetric) and be able to buy a competitive boat for around £1500.  Racing is open handicap, current boats to beat are lasers, a graduate and particularly quick mark 3 GP so would need to be at least able to compete with these in most conditions.

Current possibilities are National 12, Tasar, Scorpian or anything else anyone can suggest.  I have zero experience of any of these classes so if anyone can suggest anything or make points that would be great.

I've written off GP's (£3k for a competitive boat), Enterprises (handicap is woefully inaccurate), Merlin Rocket (cost of competitive boats and too quick) and Graduates (crew weight too heavy).

Two of your 'possibles' don't have kites.

25 stone sounds a lot for a graduate or Scorpion. It's right for a fairly big boat.

My best thought is to buy the best GP14 you can afford and learn to sail better than the other guy. If you ever beat him, you will know you are sailing better.

Some of the older Merlins may do well on handicap, and carry the weight well, depending on whether you get the proper age allowance. (see Merlin website).

Apologies, case of mind running quicker than i can type.  I was intending to  say if the class does have a kite it must be easily managable, however without a kite isn't an issue.

Sadly we're a club who are very very reluctant to move away from the published figures.  I am trying to push for a move to fairer handicaps for the lake (eg the graduate sailing off closer to its average 1107 handicap rather than published 1165), but this will take time to achieve.

Would an older Merlin be worth competing with on 1006 or is this just being eternally optimistic?  Also with no garage any painting or repairs would be very tricky.  The GP was an option but the guy sailing it came 26/27 at the nationals and the boat is very quick, i'd rather not be at a psychological disadvantage before i've even started the race sailing a Mk1 GP.

Sorry to put so many obstacles in the way of things, but thanks for your suggestions so far.

Isnt that lake very shallow and full of weed? Does the GP have to sail with a shorter centreboard.

What makes you think the Enterprise has a bad PY, they are very suitable to a lake like yours, perhaps you have only ever seen a poorly sailed one which makes you think the PY is naff. If I were you I would go for the Enterprise.

Depends on what your goals are I suspect.

Are you looking for the best possible results on handicap?

Or are you looking to improve yourself as a sailor?

Will you be happy to chart your improvement in terms of being beaten by smaller margins? Maybe winning the start and making the others work hard?

Will people at your club think 'he's improving a lot in that old boat' or do they only respect winners? Would they just change your PY if you clean up in a bandit?

If the latter then sailing one design against someone you respect as being good seems a good way to go. If you're looking for wins on handicap, you need to dredge up something that's under-appreciated. My off the wall suggestion: Bosun. Spend most of the budget on a new rig. Don't blame me if you hate it as a boat, but I think most of them are so poorly equipped, it drags the PY up. When nobody is planing it's just another 14ft boat, but most other dinghies will leave it behind as soon as they plane. (Well, you did ask!)

When it comes to money, I'd be reluctant to borrow for a boat, but as well as the purchase cost you have to think about residual value. If you spend £4k wisely on a GP, you will stand a very high chance of getting £3k back after a year or two, whereas an obscure class can cost you less up front but lose most of it.

Alternatively spend as little as possible on anything that's the right size and get good at starting, boat handling, reading shifts etc etc But some of the running costs can be just as high, a new cover for a budget boat costs the same, insurance, boat parking, fittings, entry fees,

But I would want to go for a class with a decent association, coaching, local open meetings, secondhand sails available, tuning advice and good sailors to learn from.

Get a GP - and learn off the guy who's quite good (He'll probably be pleased to help). Don't search around for something that no-one else sails at your club.

 If you want to win because of a dodgy handicap - take up golf.

I've done enough 24hr races to think the GP h/cap is only very slightly more favourable than the Enterprise - but not very much and Ents certainly can have their day.

Trouble is i am not sure you are going to get any boat at £1500 that is fully competitive with newer models.  I had a series 2 GP for a while and it was great, i think you should now be able to pick one up for marginally more then your budget.  But it will almost certainly be made of wood.  Enterprises have a pretty good handicap IMO, again an FRP one is cheaper then a GP but still more then £1500.  As Merlinmags mentioned you would get a nice Merlin for £1500 and it should be quick on a small pond, if you buy the right hull type and its set up with twin poles (quicker gybing) if your lucky you may find an Omega NSM2 which will be failry competitive on a small pond but it still won't win you the nationals.

if i were in your situation i would be buying a decent wooden Enterprise and paying to have it dry stored in the winter months.  £1500 would buy you a quick club boat.

Albacore is a great boat, but not sure £1500 is going to buy you one thats going to give a modern Grad/GP a run for its money on handicap.

I've yet to see evidence of this, with the GPs having gone with double floors they're much stiffer (actually racing off around 1109 at SSC vs 1127 published) and the Enterprise is stuck in history.  West Lancs next door race in fleets with the Enterprise fleet setting off 2 minutes ahead of the GP's and i've yet to see a race where they don't all get overtaken by the lead GP.  And theres 3 guys who finished in the top 15 a the Ent nats so they're no slouches round a course...

My aim is to do as well as possible, i've sailed an RS400 and normally come in the top 3 or 4 on handicap but i feel i could do much better in a boat more suited to the lake. 

Looking through the GP website for sale list it appears for the price i'm looking at its a series 1 boat unless i luckily catch a mark 2 for cheap.  How weight tolerant are Tasars/National 12s?  Depth is an issue at certain times of the year but GPs and the like tend to be fine, its just the more performace boats that struggle...

Forget a Tasar on restricted water - too 'sticky' in the light compared to 12s, Ents, Larks, Merlins etc. Also slower to tack (due to the boom sapnner).

Tou'll be too heavy for a N12 and possibly even a Lark.

Best bets - older Albacore or Merlin. We have an older Merlin at oiur club who does well in light conditions. Ther

You are right Gp's are much stiffer, not sure how much this extra stiffness makes on a shallow small inland water.  The biggest difference is the fact the collect less water and the wight is distributed slightly differently.  I do however agree they are quicker then series 1 versions.  but the enterprise roll tacks as well if not better then most classes and with the new fly away pole system should now be marginally quicker off wind.  The enterprise handicap may only seem harsh against GP's.  Handicaps seem harsh/advantageous when you compare different things.  Solo's and Albacores have very advantageous handicaps on some waters, where as others have advantageous handicaps across the board.  In short for your £1500 i think you will struggle to find a boat that will compete with the GP on a restricted piece of water.  My point about the enterprises was you will get a better standard of ent for £1500 then you will GP.

For example a lufkin Enterprise (if i remember highly regarded builder)

ENTERPRISE 21092 LUFKIN 1984 VGC RECENT COMPLETE REPAINT AND VARNISH, SPEED SAILS, PROCTOR SPARS, SPARE CENTREBOARD & TILLER,
BOOM UP COVER, RAPIDE COMBI TRAILER, £1350 ONO. LOCATED MANCHESTER AREA Tel: 01204 885983 EVENING or 07831 092024 DAYTIME

The cheapest series 2 GP is £2150 (that i can find)

Therefore i would suggest an Enterprise at that value is going to be more competitive then a Gp of the same value.

In terms of Albacore you may find a young (Builder) for that sort of money, but this is going to be an old boat now and ongoing maintenance.  It will also struggle against a brand new Jeep.

Thats a fair point, i hadn't thought about it in that way...

How / where do the RYA 'officially approve of the handicap adjustments published for the Merlin' ?

I ask because I've never seen such a statement beyond the advice that clubs adjust to suit conditions etc. I can understand the argument that older Merlins should get some relief from the latest PY inflicted on them by the advances made by newer boats. But if a club does go down that line, it should probably also apply the same logic to narrow wooden Fireballs,  soggy pre foam GRP Larks / Scorpions, old heavy Lasers, and most relevant in this discussion old GP14s?

I know i'm biased but a word in favour of the scorpion... First off, the top 3 at the nationals ranged from 21 to 26 stone,so no worries on the weight front.

On the price front, if you wanted to win the nationals then i would say a new boat is the way forward but we had boats 20 years old winning races at this years nationals and £1,500 will get you a boat capable of winning opens.

Oh yeah, regulations on centreboard and rudder are open (within reason) so no qualms about shorter blades for southport if necessary..

The boat is light, responsive, fits all your requirements and is fun to sail...

If you wnat any more info / have any more questions feel free to send me a message...

Tom

In answer to your question - Very good (within reason of course). Considering it is a light boat at 81kg the competitive crew weight range is very big. The nationals have been won by anything ranging from 20 stone to 26 stone in recent years and that is not just a sign of the winds, we won a light wind nationals in abersoch 2 years ago with 25 stone in the boat.

Other people race them with more but struggle a bit when it is lighter. Most people are around the 22 / 23 stone mark for combined weight.

How much are you looking to spend? Am happy to try and suggest some good options if we have a ballpark to aim for. Easiest thing may be to pm me and can see what's around...