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m_liddell View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote m_liddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Advanced instructors course
    Posted: 16 Apr 06 at 12:48pm

Looking around on the net and the RYA literature there is very little about on the ability/experience expected, assessments and course content for the advanced instructors course. Has anyone done it and what does it entail?

 

The guy who taught my dinghy instructors course was fairly vague too, he just said you had to be able to do a good job in an boat in F4 except for maybe a 49er with a few years teaching experiance. RIB driving also had to be good.

 

I do know some people who have done the course and they sailing standard isn’t too good, my 14 would eat them for breakfast But then I’m sure we all know people with sailing quals. that probably shouldn’t have them

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Post Options Post Options   Quote elmo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 06 at 3:41pm

I did mine a few years ago.

The performance sailing module is not too taxing nowadays, not as hard as old level 5 I dont think (although may well be wrong).  You are only teaching the basics of trapezeing, and spinnaker work, so the boats used are often not that high performance, much of a weeks course might be in a stratos or something and move into maybe a buzz at the end.

Probably the hardest part about the course (it goes through teaching spinnakers and trapezing so you need to be reasonable at them, both sym and assym) was the stuff on boat tuning, how the dynamic controls(kicker cunningham etc) and static controls (spreaders, shroud settings) affect the sail shape.  On my  course I already knew the basics although I found turngin a fully battened rigged boat on its side and playing with the controls v enlightening.  There were some people there who were learning that stuff from scratch, we all got through.

So in conclusion I am sure you will get through.  Although I am a reasonable sailor and can deal with assymetrics fine, as well as trapezing and syms (crewed Laser 2 for 3 years) I would not put myself down as a performance sailor! (your 14 would indeed eat me for breakfast)  But I am pretty confident I could teach the bare basics in simple boats.  Remeber to go on a performance module course nowadays you only have to have achieved your level 2! 

Pieces of paper generally mean nothing.  It is far more important in teaching situations that people know their limitations and dont take things on they cant handle.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Garry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 06 at 4:19pm
I am hoping to go to Thorny island at the end of April, although I haven't had confirmation from the RYA that I have a place on the course. However, at £65 I opted to go along and not be assessed this time so I could get an idea of the standard and partly because most of my experience is in hiking symmetric boats and because my experice of trapezing as crew and asymmetrics is very limited. If I then think I'm up to the standard then I'll opt for assessment either later this year or next year.

While I agree experience is more useful than paper, its the piece of paper that provides the evidence. Courses like this are also opportunities to exchange ideas and good practice.

Garry

Lark 2252, Contender 298

www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk
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Post Options Post Options   Quote m_liddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 06 at 5:59pm

Many thanks for you replies guys; very helpful.

There seems to be a huge overlap between the 'performance sailing' couse and 'sailing with spinnakers'. I guess the spinnaker course is there for people who don't want to learn trapeze stuff. I've taught a few spinnaker courses since you can do it with just the DI qual. as long as your SI thinks you are up to it.

I really need to spend some time learning symmetrical spinnakers since I have only ever used asymmetrics  plus maybe another season in the 14 or something.

Regarding qualifications, I got fed up last summer with pushy parents booking their kids on stage 1-3 in a week period or asking which course they should put their kids on next. Why the paper chasing? To show off at dinner parties? I always explain that I prefer that the kids enjoy sailing and will stick with it above everything else. Personally, the only RYA course I have been on it my dinghy instructors course!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote CurlyBen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 06 at 6:29pm
I guess you've already seen this? I'm thinking about doing one when I get back (off to Minorca on Tuesday, going for almost the whole season!). I think there was also something about it in one of the instructor newsletters a while back, if you've got some back issues might be worth having a look. It'd be interesting to hear how people get on.

As for paper chasing, I find it more annoying when people come back year after year without sailing in between and just expect to pick up another certificate. Don't really like having to fail people I've only done the DI course as far as dinghies go as well!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Granite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 06 at 6:57pm
Originally posted by m_liddell

Regarding qualifications, I got fed up last summer with pushy parents booking their kids on stage 1-3 in a week period or asking which course they should put their kids on next. Why the paper chasing? To show off at dinner parties? I always explain that I prefer that the kids enjoy sailing and will stick with it above everything else. Personally, the only RYA course I have been on it my dinghy instructors course!



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elmo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote elmo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 06 at 9:58pm

Arg.  I have never understood how to quote on these things.

Someone above: "It is the piece of paper that provides the evidence".  DOES IT?? 

There are an unbelivably large number of dodgy sailing instructors out there, ones that can barely control their own boat out there in wind never mind teach anyone else to sail it. 

I suppose better a sailor is the less likely they are to be teaching more novice types but getting staff which are not only qualified, but are actually competent and have some sense seems to be pretty tricky nowadays.   Places like UKSA that do these all in one cant sail to instructor courses are just making this worse.  People seem able to get their instructors with out a decent amount of experience and time on the water in boats so they instinctively know what to do when a situation arises.

Paper chasing happens higher up with instructors too.  As with different centres producing differnet calibers of level 2s the same thing is happening with instructors.  I really think the RYA needs to raise the bar a lot.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote m_liddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 06 at 10:21pm

Originally posted by elmo

There are an unbelivably large number of dodgy sailing instructors out there, ones that can barely control their own boat out there in wind never mind teach anyone else to sail it. 

Very true. A centre I worked at I saw one of the instructors tacking a laser facing backwards and getting tangled up while teaching his course. On my pre assessment most of the people on it didn't know the difference between aft and centre mainsheet.

Many instructors seem to get their qualification and never do any personal sailing themselves which I think is sad. Some get hooked on the power trip of being 'the teacher' too. Experience and time on the water and in different classes makes you a much better instructor.

The staff at PGL get paid depending on how many qualifications they have. This doesn't help!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote CurlyBen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 06 at 10:58pm
I think there's still more instructors than there are jobs, at least in the summer. When I was looking for a job I got it more because I could start earlier than other people (I'm on a gap year). I know people who did a 'zero to hero' instructor course - some were on my course - and worked with one of them last year. She was very good at what she was doing, teaching kids the basics, but I know she wouldn't attempt a high performance course etc. Normally I would agree, but I know there are exceptions. Also most of the instructors I know are passionate sailors - the wages we get paid would make it daft to do it otherwise, though as 6 day weeks are the norm time for personal sailing can be limited.
As for different standards between different sailors, obviously that's true, but as long as they are all above the minimum standard is there a problem? (If you're suggesting the standard needs to be raised that's different, but all instructor candidates are indepently assessed). I know of a few people who have been deferred from getting their full award until they can demonstrate their competency in certain areas, and people who are clearly not ready have been discouraged from doing the course. Of course there are bad instructors but there are plenty of good ones too!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 06 at 8:58am

Well I have just finished my DI course and I agree the standards varied. There were a couple of surprise passes and some action plans.

If anyone is going to do the DI course get sailing different boats. I struggled because I am so used to my Contender and have sailed little else for the last 5 years.

Just imagine me in a Pico with 2 reefs (I know but we were told to!!) and winds gusting 35 knots - great fun until they stopped us and forced us to get a tow home.

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