Looking around on the net and the RYA literature there is very little about on the ability/experience expected, assessments and course content for the advanced instructors course. Has anyone done it and what does it entail?

The guy who taught my dinghy instructors course was fairly vague too, he just said you had to be able to do a good job in an boat in F4 except for maybe a 49er with a few years teaching experiance. RIB driving also had to be good.

I do know some people who have done the course and they sailing standard isn’t too good, my 14 would eat them for breakfast But then I’m sure we all know people with sailing quals. that probably shouldn’t have them

I did mine a few years ago.

The performance sailing module is not too taxing nowadays, not as hard as old level 5 I dont think (although may well be wrong).  You are only teaching the basics of trapezeing, and spinnaker work, so the boats used are often not that high performance, much of a weeks course might be in a stratos or something and move into maybe a buzz at the end.

Probably the hardest part about the course (it goes through teaching spinnakers and trapezing so you need to be reasonable at them, both sym and assym) was the stuff on boat tuning, how the dynamic controls(kicker cunningham etc) and static controls (spreaders, shroud settings) affect the sail shape.  On my  course I already knew the basics although I found turngin a fully battened rigged boat on its side and playing with the controls v enlightening.  There were some people there who were learning that stuff from scratch, we all got through.

So in conclusion I am sure you will get through.  Although I am a reasonable sailor and can deal with assymetrics fine, as well as trapezing and syms (crewed Laser 2 for 3 years) I would not put myself down as a performance sailor! (your 14 would indeed eat me for breakfast)  But I am pretty confident I could teach the bare basics in simple boats.  Remeber to go on a performance module course nowadays you only have to have achieved your level 2! 

Pieces of paper generally mean nothing.  It is far more important in teaching situations that people know their limitations and dont take things on they cant handle.

Many thanks for you replies guys; very helpful.

There seems to be a huge overlap between the 'performance sailing' couse and 'sailing with spinnakers'. I guess the spinnaker course is there for people who don't want to learn trapeze stuff. I've taught a few spinnaker courses since you can do it with just the DI qual. as long as your SI thinks you are up to it.

I really need to spend some time learning symmetrical spinnakers since I have only ever used asymmetrics  plus maybe another season in the 14 or something.

Regarding qualifications, I got fed up last summer with pushy parents booking their kids on stage 1-3 in a week period or asking which course they should put their kids on next. Why the paper chasing? To show off at dinner parties? I always explain that I prefer that the kids enjoy sailing and will stick with it above everything else. Personally, the only RYA course I have been on it my dinghy instructors course!

Arg.  I have never understood how to quote on these things.

Someone above: "It is the piece of paper that provides the evidence".  DOES IT?? 

There are an unbelivably large number of dodgy sailing instructors out there, ones that can barely control their own boat out there in wind never mind teach anyone else to sail it. 

I suppose better a sailor is the less likely they are to be teaching more novice types but getting staff which are not only qualified, but are actually competent and have some sense seems to be pretty tricky nowadays.   Places like UKSA that do these all in one cant sail to instructor courses are just making this worse.  People seem able to get their instructors with out a decent amount of experience and time on the water in boats so they instinctively know what to do when a situation arises.

Paper chasing happens higher up with instructors too.  As with different centres producing differnet calibers of level 2s the same thing is happening with instructors.  I really think the RYA needs to raise the bar a lot.

Very true. A centre I worked at I saw one of the instructors tacking a laser facing backwards and getting tangled up while teaching his course. On my pre assessment most of the people on it didn't know the difference between aft and centre mainsheet.

Many instructors seem to get their qualification and never do any personal sailing themselves which I think is sad. Some get hooked on the power trip of being 'the teacher' too. Experience and time on the water and in different classes makes you a much better instructor.

The staff at PGL get paid depending on how many qualifications they have. This doesn't help!

Well I have just finished my DI course and I agree the standards varied. There were a couple of surprise passes and some action plans.

If anyone is going to do the DI course get sailing different boats. I struggled because I am so used to my Contender and have sailed little else for the last 5 years.

Just imagine me in a Pico with 2 reefs (I know but we were told to!!) and winds gusting 35 knots - great fun until they stopped us and forced us to get a tow home.

I have not looked at the syllabus for any instructor courses but if you could tolerate this rather obvious question - do the Instructor courses actually teach you anything about how to teach or is it more to do with checking that you have enough sailing knowledge & ability?

Yes I had to sail a wayfairer for the first time, with no rudder, F5 and big waves

Is it true they've wiped rudderless and centre-board-less sailing from the preassessment?

Yep. I only needed to do the rudderless part but now even that has been removed. On my course I was the only one to actually make it round the triangular course with no rudder!

But if you get your DI you are qualified to teach seamanship skills which includes rudderless sailing are you not?

It does seem a bit ridiculous, it is great that more people are starting to sail but if thye are going to be taught by numpties then more accidents will start happening.   Particularly as the more modern teaching boats, like stratoses instead of wafers are much harder to deal with.  (Compare righting from a rib a capsized stratos v wayfer....)

Very true. If the case was that there are more instructors than jobs, why hasn't the RYA exploited this and raised the standards of the pre-assessment which means that it is experienced sailors getting jobs and not people who have been chasing tickets. Think most reputable sailing schools will be employing based on previous experience though.

they have now removed the rudderless sailing! when i did my DI course 6 months ago, i spent a bit of time learning how to do that confidently, and it makes you really understand the boat handling a lot more. Taking that off the syllabus really is not a good move. How can you teach someone a technique if you yourself cannot do the manoevre.

Having read these various posts I would like to comment, as an Senior Instructor, on the Advanced and DI situation.  The DI certificate is awarded to a wide range of abilities and some are quite poor in my experience.  However please remember that they are simply teaching light wind basic skills and little more.  There are skilled instructors who are total posers and poorly skilled instructors who are simply magnificent at putting people at ease but may not sail much themselves.  The SI task is managing a diverse team to achieve the final desired result.

The advanced endorsement is somewhat different and other posts have summed it up well - you should be able to sail a variety of different high performance dinghies - not just one type, have a good grasp of the controls involved on dinghies rigged to open meeting standards and be able to pass this information on to students who have liitle grasp of the theory of the airflow, low pressure areas etc etc.

Young instructors who fly round like little 'minkeys' and sail the pants of us oldies are often the holders of the Advanced but they cannot pass the information across particularly well - once again a balancing act is needed from the SI view but the over-riding aspect is that if you want to take the Advanced then go out and have a few days blasting in anything you can get your hands on - conventional or asymetric!!!!!

Carry on everybody

Yes, I agree

My 'manor' is (luckily) quite safe - no 'mockneys' or Guy Ritchie types to be seen except in high season when the rhyming slang starts.....

"Extremely whingey" - Sailing Dinghy

"Mick the Miller" - Tiller

"Brokeback Mountain" - Cherub Sailors

Relax - I'm sure you are all very butch

Actually I would love a Cherub and keep trying to get one but they are a bit thin on the ground here (except for the gorgeous green one in Bloodaxe boats front garden)

Spiny Norman

 A Cherub - over here - surely not.......I suggest the Merrydown Two day racing "fest" off Ryde - good selection of dinghies and cats, good blasting course but more importantly as much Merrydown cider as you can drink - I left last year with a case in the front of my boat - if you don't like cider it's good for removing old varnish.

Normally first weekend in Sept with attendance from local clubs and some "Alverstockracy" attendees - it is said in hushed tones that one year a Dart sailor was so wasted he went back to Stokes Bay and sailed straight up the beach with no efforts to stop due to being semi conscious - happy days!