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How hard is a Skiff

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Bootscooter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: How hard is a Skiff
    Posted: 01 Jun 07 at 5:52pm

Agrre with you Tack... but up to a point.  As far as fleet racing is concerned, it's hard to beat a Laser, butthe effort to performance ratio isn't that great when you just want to go for a sail.

 

Also, not everyone has the time to spend as long as they'd like training or in the gym, in which case a different class of boat that fits in with your lifestyle may be a better idea in the long run....

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Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 07 at 6:20pm

tack'ho, what winds me up is that i know i can beat the other guys in one set of conditions but when i have asked them about what i have been doing wrong at other times they don't know what i've done wrong either.

edit: any way this isn't a thread about moaning about lasers its about skiffs. crewed skiffs are much easier than single handers so perhaps you should consider talking to anyone with a fast boat at your club.



Edited by mike ellis
600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it.
Also International 14, 1318
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Post Options Post Options   Quote k_kirk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 07 at 6:23pm

BeachBoy,

Life is too short. Just get the high performance boat you drool over and get on with it. It you choose a double-hander thats reosanbly docile... (ie RS500, 29er etc) then you can beg, borrow or steal someone's time to coach you on the water. I bought a 29erXX after years of dry life on the ground and managed to get back into it in about 10 sessions with an ex-Olympian. A lot of swimming & self mutilation was part of the process but the end result is definitely worth it all. A coach who can give you one-on-one attention is key to success!

PS. Make sure to buy the best insurance you can buy... Both for your boat and yourself.

Cheers

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Merlinboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 07 at 7:14pm

Originally posted by Chris 249

I just get a bit sick of the continual Laser abuse, normally from people
who don't know how to get one going well. Sure the Laser is slower than a
Unicorn or a 600.....so what, the Unicorn is slower than the cat I sail and
the 600 is slower than a couple of my monos. Doesn't mean any of them
deserve to be labelled as boring.

443, as you admit, we don't know what Ben thinks of the boat. I think
Schiedt
has regularly said he thinks it's great. For a while I trained with Blackburn
and I never heard him complain about the boat.

I've sailed Lasers against a bunch of former 18 world champs, the current
Tasar world champ, the FD worlds runner up etc etc. They know good
boats and they sail Lasers and don't say they're boring.

In terms of speed for dollar or for sail area it's an outstanding design, and
even in terms of speed for length it's good (for a hiking boat). It just
seems self destructive to attack the sport's most popular boat. To assume
that, as Turnturtle did, that a person would get bored with the Laser that
quickly flies in the face of the fact that more people choose to sail them
than any other class.

 

They dont complain because it would be like biting the hand that feeds you, they dont pay for their boats do they, i loved my laser but unless you can practice 7 days a week you aint gonna do anything in the fleet, and they are boring compaired to skiffs NO ONE CAN ARGUE THAT FACT!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 07 at 11:00pm

I used to campaign a Laser and loved the close racing.  There was a time at Bough Beech when we had ˝ dozen keen guys and a fleet of 12 and we would be swapping places all round the course and winning by only metres after 90 minutes.  However after a race we'd all head back to shore for pies and pints, and were really knackered.

Now I sail a 4000, I hardly ever see much of the competition and often don't know who won until I get my email the next day (that's handicap racing).  However after a race I often go for blast - just for the thrill of it.

Very different.

I think you should take an intermediate step or 2.  There's a lot to learn and it doesn't come by reading books.  They are difficult boats, the good guys make it look easy but it isn't.  In fact they are so difficult there are many many sailors who would never manage one.  You could so easily wreck the boat and severely damage your confidence.  And one final tip if you borrow a boat make sure you've got at least a spare tiller extension - you'll proably need it.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote bustinben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 07 at 11:41pm
Originally posted by Merlinboy

They dont complain because it would be like biting the hand that feeds you, they dont pay for their boats do they, i loved my laser but unless you can practice 7 days a week you aint gonna do anything in the fleet, and they are boring compaired to skiffs NO ONE CAN ARGUE THAT FACT!

 

Er, yeah actually I can argue that fact.  What makes a boat boring or not is the quality of the racing, not the outright speed.  YOU cannot argue that the laser provides some of the best quality racing there is.

If all you care about it speed why don't you get a jetski?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote bustinben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 07 at 11:43pm
Originally posted by mike ellis

tack'ho, what winds me up is that i know i can beat the other guys in one set of conditions but when i have asked them about what i have been doing wrong at other times they don't know what i've done wrong either.

 

And that's the fault of the boat how?  Why not ask someone who knows

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Post Options Post Options   Quote m_liddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 07 at 12:34am
I have a 14 but a laser on a broad reach in a blow is still great fun, it is just a different type of sailing. For all it's design quirks the laser is a great boat to stay in for a while, it isn't hard to sail but it will punish you in a breeze if you don't sail it flat, your gybes are lazy etc. it does teach some solid skills.

I really would not go the route of 'capsize for a season and then learn to sail it' with a skiff. You will break stuff, not enjoy sailing, possibly be a liability. With fast boats stuff sometimes happens so quickly you will have no idea what you did wrong. Driving to the sailing club and fearing going out if the wind it F4+ really isn't fun - get something you can handle. The vortex with asy does sounds a good choice for a season or two.


Edited by m_liddell
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 07 at 12:36am
Originally posted by bustinben

Er, yeah actually I can argue that fact.  What makes a boat boring or not is the quality of the racing, not the outright speed.  YOU cannot argue that the laser provides some of the best quality racing there is.

If all you care about it speed why don't you get a jetski?

 

Firstly, not everyone wants just to race.  Also, as mentioned earlier, not everyone has the time to train hard enough to get the best out of their Laser.

Nobody will disagree that to get good quality class racing at virtually any club in the country, the Laser will deliver. BUT... to get the best out of it involves a hell of a lot of hard work, and that just isn't for everyone.  I LOVE racing a Laser, but I can't be @rsed to travel to the lake for a blast in one, where as a skiff type boat (and others) do give a better performance-effort ratio.  Not saying you're wrong for loving your Laser, just pointing out that it isn't for everyone.

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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 07 at 4:43am
[QUOTE=Merlinboy]

[QUOTE=Chris 249]

 


They dont complain because it would be like biting the hand that feeds
you, they dont pay for their boats do they, i loved my laser but unless you
can practice 7 days a week you aint gonna do anything in the fleet, and
they are boring compaired to skiffs NO ONE CAN ARGUE THAT FACT!

[/
QUOTE]

Of course they can argue the fact.....last Laser regatta I did had 3 entries
who have been right at the top of the 18s. The multiple 18 world champ
has recently moved into the class. Other people who enjoy sailing Lasers
at times are A Class world champs. Would these guys really get into a
boat if it bored them?

Sure, some people get bored with Lasers. I find one of the world's fastest
singlehanders a rather boring boat to sail. That doesn't mean you have to
tell someone new to dinghies that he WILL get bored, and quickly.

Top Laser sailors can earn a lot more sailing big boats. They are there
because they enjoy the Laser. EDIT ; There's never been any sign Michael
Blackburn gets free or cheap boats....he used to use an old club boat.

To quote Scheidt....

"I still have a lot of pleasure in sailing the boat. I think that’s the main
thing that keeps me motivated..... I like the Laser sailing. The excitement
of the regattas, traveling around, and competing with equal weapons. The
Laser uses your fitness; I like to sail in that way, mixing tactical and
physical perpetration........ I still have a lot of fun sailing the Laser. I love
the boat because it is a simple concept and the best sailor wins......I was
getting great fun out of the boat - if I was bored I would have switched.”

Can you find any evidence that he only sails it for the cash, and that he
would not earn more calling Farr 40 shots for $5k per day?

I used to abuse the boat; then I learned more about design, and the
reason it was designed the way it is. The things that initially seem to be
faults are there mainly because they have to be. Sure it's slow and stable.
So is a Contender, Merlin or a 14 by some standards.

It just doesn't help the sport to attack the most popular boat.

Edited by Chris 249
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