RS700 vs Vortex

i know a coupple of guys that sail the mps both top ranking.  it seems to carry a large weight range.  ( one guy is bout 5 foot 6 and weighs 65kg and the other is 6foot 2 and weighs 100kgs).  it is an amazing boat and seems very simple to sail.

"Faster and more technically advanced" is seductive but doesn't automatically lead to a more enjoyable sailing experience.

For example, a lot of the newer designs have very efficient hulls that hardly make any spray, but I like sailing boats that make lots of spray! I like playing with water, it's one of the reasons I go sailing, so standing up on a trapeze, five feet above the surface on a boat that's making no spray just doesn't do it for me.

There are loads of other factors, like the feel of the helm, the way the boat works with you, steering in the gusts, and the newer designs are by no means always better in these respects. This probably explains why we still have so many different classes sailing today - we all like different combinations of the possibilities.

Coming back to the original question, is there much feel in a Vortex helm, or does it just run on rails till it flips or pitchpoles? The other thing I've heard about the Vortex is that its capsize behaviour is far from perfect: loves to sail away from you and has to be righted on top of you - scary. Capsizing probably doesn't happen that often, but that would make it more shocking when it did.

Originally posted by Jon Emmett when you have only two boats at the Nationals...

True, there's no denying that the Boss is dead, and there aren't any people that mourned its passing! 

Originally posted by Medway Maniac   Coming back to the original question, is there much feel in a Vortex helm - Yes and it feels great - except in a drifter when there isn't much feel at all. or does it just run on rails till it flips or pitchpoles?  - No and it doesn't 'flip' any more than any other high performance boat. On the contrary there's a good amount of stability especially for gybes etc.  It will pitchpole, but only in manic conditions when all but the best sailors of similar speed classes will probably either stay ashore or be pitchpoling themselves.  The other thing I've heard about the Vortex is  - Aarrgh! not the 'something I've heard theme again - I heard Elvis is alive and living in Tooting - I reckon thats probably wrong too ! that its capsize behaviour is far from perfect: loves to sail away from you and has to be righted on top of you - scary. As above - in stacks of wind this can happen - but can in any class - and in extreme conditions, many singlehanders are quicker to right by an eskimo roll  - it doesn't mean you have to do it - but if you do, there's an air gap - so not scary at all.

I don't disput the merits of the 700 or MPS, but it is annoying that the Vortex is 'dissed' quite regularly on this Forum - sometimes being accused of being to dull and stable to be worth sailing but at other times of being impossible to sail without flipping, pitchpoling etc.

So which of these extremes is it? I'd suggest it's neither. It does have an initial stability that some might think is dull - but others enjoy sailing a boat that can be driven hard, is fast, exciting and yet is (comparitively) forgiving in the gybes and so, depending on the skill level of the sailor(s), is capable of being sailed in stronger / gustier winds than most similar boats.

Jon - PM me or any of the YDSC Vortex fleet to arrange a test sail - I'll try to get a 700 there as well so you can decide based on facts rather than what you've heard or  - perish the thought - read here!

 

Edited by Hector

Originally posted by Medway Maniac Capsizing probably doesn't happen that often, but that would make it more shocking when it did.

I've capsized one. Righting it didn't seem like any big deal. I was suprised how easily it came up. I'm sure the hull does tend to get blown downwind - my winged singlehander which had more "area" out of the water certainly did, but you just bring the boat up slowly so that it can spin round. Just technique.

It wouldn't be my choice as a boat to own - I'll stick with the IC for now thanks, but it seems like a pretty reasonable boat and I'm sure it would be a better choice than the Musto or 700 for some folk.

Edited by JimC