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JimC View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 9:29pm
Originally posted by Prince Buster

Spill Sparrow, do they deteriorate with age?  Go soft?


It would be suprising if a polyester boat didn't eventually go soft, (and preumably an epoxy one if you give it long enough) but they're pretty well engineered, so you'd expect them to last longer than those classes which use csm and/or where the loads are less well distributed into the structure.

I suspect that boats go out of use more often because they end up in the brambles at the back of dinghy parks than because they go terminally soft actually... Imagine a 29er that's been left unattended for three years or so in the brambles, sails eaten by mice, the blocks and strings probably worn out anyway, the fibre parts of the spars disaapearing into fuzz under UV... It may not have gone soft, but its still going to cost a fortune to resurrect and likely to end up on the tip...
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Skiffman View Drop Down
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Posts: 291 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Skiffman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 9:46pm

The hulls last a long time, and people call them fast boats because they feel faster than other boats. We had 2 boats one made in 2002 and the other in 2005, they both felt quick. But we always used the 2002 as a training boat and therefore with an old mast but we were still very quick in it. In fact looking back on it now it was going very fast at the last squad training before the worlds. The newer boat was kept for big events only,  and we used it at the worlds this year. With our older boat made in 2002 we chartered it to another team at the worlds.

Both boats were weighed at the worlds the old boat being 1.5kg underweight and the new boat was 2.9kg overweight!!!!  Which was a shock! By the end of the worlds our old boat beat us (1st and 2nd), but it was sailed my very good sailors.

So the age of the boat does not matter if the boat is set-up, down to weight and sailed by the right sailors.
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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Posts: 2965 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 9:56pm
Originally posted by Skiffman

The hulls last a long time, and people call them
fast boats because they feel faster than other boats. We had 2 boats one
made in 2002 and the other in 2005, they both felt quick. But we always
used the 2002 as a training boat and therefore with an old mast but we
were still very quick in it. In fact looking back on it now it was going very
fast at the last squad training before the worlds. The newer boat was kept
for big events only,  and we used it at the worlds this year. With our older
boat made in 2002 we chartered it to another team at the worlds.


Both boats were weighed at the worlds the old boat being 1.5kg
underweight and the new boat was 2.9kg overweight!!!!  Which was a
shock! By the end of the worlds our old boat beat us (1st and 2nd), but it
was sailed my very good sailors.


So the age of the boat does not matter if the boat is set-up, down to
weight and sailed by the right sailors.



That's hardly a big age gap. I'd hope that 3 years wouldn't make a
difference.

Edited by Jack Sparrow
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Blobby View Drop Down
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Posts: 779 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Blobby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 06 at 2:49am

What with my 29er being the first one into Singapore, Julian Bethwaite being at the ISAF conference at the time and in his words "being anal about making sure the first boats in a set up right" I got to spend 1/2 a day with Julian getting my boat set up correctly.

Some of the pearls of wisdom - 29ers get lighter with age and the only problem you may get in time is the ply frames in the hull rotting out if you don't take both bungs out when not being used.

Having a good track record of event wins only means the monkeys in the boat were fast - not the boat itself. 

One step forwards, 2 steps back...
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Skiffman View Drop Down
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Posts: 291 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Skiffman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 06 at 9:45am

I have never ever found that a 29er gets lighter with age, generally they get heavier. Especially if they leak then it seems the the polyester resin soaks up the water. No offence to Julian I just do not like him
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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Posts: 2965 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 06 at 10:40am
Originally posted by Blobby


Some of the pearls of wisdom - 29ers get lighter with age....



Well he's quite good at marketing the Bethwaite name, isn't he.

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49erGBR735HSC View Drop Down
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Posts: 1991 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 49erGBR735HSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 06 at 10:44am
Originally posted by Skiffman

The hulls last a long time, and people call them fast boats because they feel faster than other boats. We had 2 boats one made in 2002 and the other in 2005, they both felt quick. But we always used the 2002 as a training boat and therefore with an old mast but we were still very quick in it. In fact looking back on it now it was going very fast at the last squad training before the worlds. The newer boat was kept for big events only,  and we used it at the worlds this year. With our older boat made in 2002 we chartered it to another team at the worlds.

Both boats were weighed at the worlds the old boat being 1.5kg underweight and the new boat was 2.9kg overweight!!!!  Which was a shock! By the end of the worlds our old boat beat us (1st and 2nd), but it was sailed my very good sailors.

So the age of the boat does not matter if the boat is set-up, down to weight and sailed by the right sailors.

I think proof to Julian's theory may be observed through your statement that your older boat was lighter than your newer boat. A sligthly educated guess would be that Julian was reckoning that the boats got lighter with time due to the fact that the polyester was given more heat exposure and time to cure. From a marketing point of view its quite bad to say that older boats get lighter with time unless there was some meaning behind it because it would be encouraging people to look for older boats that were lighter instead of buying boats straight out of the factory. Regardless of personality, it doesn't necesarily mean someone is wrong (although I can't comment on personality because I've never met the guy).
Dennis Watson 49er GBR735
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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Posts: 2965 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 06 at 10:47am
Oh come on, bad marketing to say a boat gets lighter with age.
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Granite View Drop Down
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Posts: 476 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Granite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 06 at 7:30pm

Originally posted by Blobby

Some of the pearls of wisdom - 29ers get lighter with age and the only problem you may get in time is the ply frames in the hull rotting out if you don't take both bungs out when not being used.

The lighter with age thing could mean that they are being built heavier now!

interesting to hear that they use plywood bulkheads that would make me wary of one that had sailed on fresh water and sat for some time.

 

 

 
If it doesn't break it's too heavy; if it does it wasn't built right
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m_liddell View Drop Down
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Posts: 583 		Post Options Post Options   Quote m_liddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 06 at 7:44pm

Originally posted by Blobby

Some of the pearls of wisdom - 29ers get lighter with age

Polymers are pretty good at moisture takeup = heavier boat
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