Uninvented classes

Well done Matt,

you've managed to take a good discussion and turn it ito a personal attack, very mature.  I apologise for my somewhat acidic sense of humour, however your reponse to my contender question was predictable and you might want to examine your own generalisations from an earlier posts.   It would seem that while I don't have any great love for the manufacturers, you seem to dislike other sailors...  I won't dignify the rest of your posts with any further response, suffice to say that by 200 I meant RS200, sorry if the reference was a little too complex

Mr Contender 

It's good that your class has managed the change to carbon spars well and that you still feel competitive with older kit. However there are 'third way' classes that have definite performance differences in their fleet due to upgrades, Westerly built J24s come to mind, having their seperate prizes at events due to being viewed as disadvantaged against the newer boats.

Chris

I see what you're getting at but surely whatever you sail you use the first three skills (for comparable boats the handling is usually harder in the dev design than the OD?)?  I kind of meant something bigger by it, kind of a general outlook that dev sailors have compared to those who buy SMODs, but I won't go any deeper down that road as its rather too big a subject to cover here!

T

Harry,

 I think you've brought the discussion back to a better level if anything...  How are thought on a new boat going (ie after the topper?)

T

Re Disco's "I kind of meant something bigger by it, kind of a general outlook that dev sailors have compared to those who buy SMODs".

Disco, we're in different countries so I don't know whether UK and Aust dev sailros have similar attitudes, and I don't know whether Aust and UK OD sailors have similar attitudes. We don't have the many small SMOD classes you have which may change things.

When I put on my SMOD hat, I like having fewer factors interfering with the straight contest, because I like equality and almost everyone having a fair go irrespective of their budget; I like racing in fleets that are generally bigger; I like the fact that one of my SMODS, a 1977 boat, will be 100% competitive for the worlds (normally contested by Gold, Silver nad Bronze Olympic medallists) with good gear.

I like the fact that people in SMODs seem to have a good perspective on their boats and life (many of them tend to have full and interesting lives outside sailing which is why they are in a class that requires less boatwork); I like the fact that I can improve my sailing because there are very, very few variables. In the development class or loose OD, it's hard to work out whether it's my sailing or the Brand X main on Brand Y mast that's the problem or strength in any particular condition. In the SMOD, it's easy to know it's me.

I like the fact that in some SMODS you'll meet more people from more countries than you'll meet in any development-class fleet AFAIK and sailing in different places in different cultures, whereas most development boats are restricted to just a few countries. One of my SMODs (Laser) had something like 24 countries last nationals I did, another (Mistral) had something like 14 international sailors last nationals.  I like interacting with such people even on the class forums. I like the fact that many SMOD sailors have sailed many different classes and have a good perspective.

I don't know whether those are minor, shallow aspects to enjoy in a SMOD.

I'm certainly not sure that the SMOD sailors are mekon-like consumers who have no new ideas and no curiousity, as is sometimes implied. Out of the loose group of Laserers I know, one is an America's Cup engineer currently researching new VPPs; one did a PhD in the science of hiking; one has a patent on a new sailing device; one is a sailmaker; one got 3rd in a Cherub worlds in a boat he designed.

Like Matt, I have to say that you seem to be confirming attitudes towards development class sailors.

Apologies for the "I"s, but when I tried to write in a more general tense it didn't work.

Originally posted by DiscoBall Well done Matt, you've managed to take a good discussion and turn it ito a personal attack, very mature.  I apologise for my somewhat acidic sense of humour, however your reponse to my contender question was predictable and you might want to examine your own generalisations from an earlier posts.   It would seem that while I don't have any great love for the manufacturers, you seem to dislike other sailors...  I won't dignify the rest of your posts with any further response, suffice to say that by 200 I meant RS200, sorry if the reference was a little too complex Mr Contender  It's good that your class has managed the change to carbon spars well and that you still feel competitive with older kit. However there are 'third way' classes that have definite performance differences in their fleet due to upgrades, Westerly built J24s come to mind, having their seperate prizes at events due to being viewed as disadvantaged against the newer boats. Chris I see what you're getting at but surely whatever you sail you use the first three skills (for comparable boats the handling is usually harder in the dev design than the OD?)?  I kind of meant something bigger by it, kind of a general outlook that dev sailors have compared to those who buy SMODs, but I won't go any deeper down that road as its rather too big a subject to cover here! T

Nothing personal, sorry you took it that way.

RE: Weight in a Laser.

There is a young lad at our club who sails a Laser, he has gone from a Topper pretty much straight in to a full rig. He handles it pretty well considering he cannot be much more than 9 stone. He does struggle upwind somewhat though when it gets breezy, but then again he can switch down to a Radial.

As for the close boat on boat action I have found that I cannot beat being in the Laser fleet. We to have some very close racing at the front of the fleet with several people being capable of winning races.

Paul