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RS300 vs Blaze

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getafix View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RS300 vs Blaze
    Posted: 16 Aug 06 at 1:55pm
Agreeing entirely with Blaze720 it's all about give and take and your own chosen class will always be viewed with rose-tinted specs. 

The Blaze should probably accept a Carbon mast (with the same sail) some way down the line, but sooner rather than later as there's few  <300 in circulation now.

Windward planing in the Blaze is a reality now if it's windy enough but would be much easier to do consistently with a carbon mast (less pitching with that low bow in waves) and with a lower hull weight (bound to be un-popular with the class as this would 'obsolete' older boats).  I think the bigger c-board on the X boats gives greater leverage and lift and makes it easier to get planing than the older X-ed Mk1 boats which have the smaller original profile board.

Worth looking at this again now that Topper have announced the end of Blaze production under their wing and the class now evaluates potential new builders

... what should happen next?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tack'ho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 06 at 2:54pm
Reference fully battened mains and dumping power, you need to check of the bethwaites view and also read the story of the Bytes CIIs development www.byteclass.org but to really shorten it  'its great'
I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 06 at 3:23pm
Getafix

The various Open and Nationals results this year show that well prepared Mk1's Blazes with a recent sail are still very potent when racing with 'X's.  Everybody would prefer a newer boat of course but the fact is there is very little difference in racing performance.  The X has a slightly thicker centreboard (25mm v 21mm) as you say for reasons that now escape me and this might give a bit more lift upwind but its straightline performance is possibly a fraction slower all other things being equal.  ie extra chord can be fine upwind in some conditions but just adds to drag when powered up. We cannot adjust foil chord of course although most understanding the same issue flatten their sails when it blows - not just for contol but also for speed.  Really really fast sailing machines have small, low chord, foils and small flat sails for high wind maximum performance. (Re the Blaze - I'm told that the later X centreboards do fit in Mk1 hulls for those who might want to know)

As for carbon masts - well if they were issued 'free' all would want one - they don't seem any faster in most conditions on the Blaze but they are easier to live with in gusty conditions.  However they are very far from free still and we do want to continue to offer a lot of performance for a reasonable cost - carbon is great but maybe not quite great enough to justify just yet.  However the CA does review all options periodically.

A new Blaze builder is expected to be announced by early September at the latest. 

Mike '720'   



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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 06 at 8:01pm
The other thing that needs to be considered is that a carbon rig requires much more rig tension that the current standard Blaze rig.

I find that if I am careful and get the boat right it planes quite easily upwind in 15kts plus with no appreciable loss of pointing.

As for pointing I get people at my local club who are amazed at how high the boats climbs upwind (as opposed to points). I find the pointing agnle is less bu the amount of lift the foils generates more than compansates.

I believe the class has experimented with carbon rigs, rotating rigs at al and has found the current M7/sobsatd sail comdination hard to beat!

Blaze 720 being one of the class gurus will probably give more on this.

Paul

PS Good to hear the news on the builder, the Blaze is going places I reckon (being a recent convert).


Edited by jeffers
Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 06 at 10:45pm
Originally posted by jeffers

a carbon rig requires much more rig tension


Why?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 06 at 11:22pm
Paul

The two development carbon Seldon's I've tried are run at very similar tensions to the pre-existing and standard M7 on the Blaze.   Seems to work very well but that is with the specified sections that Seldon have developed for us that emulate the M7 in most respects.  The real issue is whether the benefits for carbon are worth the increase in cost.  If the cost differential reduces then just maybe ....  But we are also looking into a new selden cumulus (another alloy) section as an alternative to the Superspars M7.  It works well with the standard Sobstad, is similar in cost etc.  It's a bit softer low down but can be sleeved.  Anyway we will be reporting on all this research at the AGM in October but don't expect any revolution !  Keep running the M7 at low tension with sloppy lowers and sort it out with mainsheet tension and kicker when more than 100% powered up.  And DO get along to the Inlands in October at QMSC to see what others are doing !

As previously said the M7 / Sobstad combination will be a very tough one to beat in reality.

Cheers - Mike '720'
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 06 at 10:19am
Originally posted by getafix


The Blaze should probably accept a Carbon mast (with the same sail)


That's one thing there really is no point in doing. The advantage of a carbon (or part carbon part glass like the byte) spar is that it can have different and much superior bend characteristics, giving better gust response and all sorts of goodies.

But this only works if you have a different sail, certainly different luff round, and best to have different panel curvature, leech profile the lot - just the sort of thing the Byte class did.

If you aren't going to change the sail there's no point in changing the mast for plastic until such time (if we ever get there) that a plastic one with exactly the same bend characteristics is cheaper than a tin one.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 06 at 12:06pm
Jim C you're  right, but a carbon mast and new sail package would be a beast to get through  an AGM acceptance process, evolution not revolution....

I'm not as sure that a carbon spar wouldn't be possible with similar characteristics to the M7 - as Mike says, the trial Selden sections perform close to the M7 and he should know.

I think a new sail design would be a good idea anyway for the Blaze because the guys you see sailing them (whatever end of the fleet) seem to show the one-design sail has a terrible foot/bottom luff shape as there is a lot of sail below the mast track and no really satisfactory way of securing it to make it useful area upwind - of course downwind it's a bit more useful but can't help thinking most Blazers would accept a long bolt rope on new sails, if the mast chosen by the class supported it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ColH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 06 at 5:33pm

Originally posted by getafix

there is a lot of sail below the mast track and no really satisfactory way of securing it to make it useful area upwind - of course downwind it's a bit more useful but can't help thinking most Blazers would accept a long bolt rope on new sails, if the mast chosen by the class supported it.

I take a short piece of shockcord around the mast - just under the lowers - and through the eyelet for the downhaul. That stops it drifting away from the mast quite so much. Also experimenting with a sail slide attached to the same eyelet. These aren't great solutions, but better than nowt I reckon.

Col

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Post Options Post Options   Quote m_liddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 06 at 8:37pm
Does the RS300 ever plane? It looks moth style when it is going fast.
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