Paul,

The phantom is very quick and I did not find it to be as much of a handful as people make it out to be. And the 300 was equally as good as it was more of a challenging sail.

Like you said the phantom is quite pricy but a good investment if you do get hold of one cheap.  The best person to speak to is Jeff Vanderbought he has allot to do witht the phantom scene and also take phantoms in part exchange from people who have bought new ones he is very helpful and occasionally has very good 2nd hand boats. 

However if you dont want a phantom then the 300 is the way to go. Personally I would go for the phantom, once you have sold your laser become an escort for a few weekes and you should have enough money.

For a test sail in a 300 check out

http://www.rs300.com/Features/clubs.htm - http://www.rs300.com/Features/clubs.htm

Oh Here we go again !!  - The only answer is to try all those in contention and make up your own mind as to what you like and suits your style of sailing.   I've sailed and raced them all and ended up returning to the Blaze - but that's not to imply the others mentioned are not good boats, just simply that the Blaze suited my style of sailing.  The only true advice that can be given is NEVER totally believe any of us here (or the makers of course) as we all have own favorites but perhaps you should be particularly careful of views where the contributer has not personally raced the boat concerned !!  I'm very impressed myself by modern Finn's but having not sailed one at all for many years cannot give an adaquate assessment etc ..... but it still looks fantastic.

However if you (or anyone else) want to try a Blaze, we are running an association demo boat out of Burghfield SC in January.  You get it for half a day and then for a single race in the open 'Burgfield Blaze SIX-Pack' series - no charge.  If this does not suit we can arrange alternative 'tries'.  And if it's really not for you then at least YOU will be able to give an informed opinion when asked yourself.  No obligation or pressure whatsoever.

Just contact us via http://www.blaze-sailing.org.uk - www.blaze-sailing.org.uk   There is also some video of the 2005 Nationals to view via the home page.  Good Luck ! 

Regards - Mike  '720'  Blaze Class Association

And now for a totally biased post:

I used to have a Laser and was getting bored with sailing as a whole. I'd done the open circuit thing as a youth in both Lightning 368 and Lasers, and was at that stage where I didn't bother rigging the Laser unless it was absolutely blowing it's knockers off as it was the only guarantee of having fun. I was in need of yet another new Laser sail and my hull was getting tired as well (144K) so 18 months ago I flogged it and bought the fastest single handed hiking boat I could afford. It was a rash decision as my priorities were thus:

£2000 budget, lowest possible PY, would support a 14stone beer lover.

I had a similar conundrum and the 300 won because it was faster on Handicap. Stupid criteria I know but all I can say is that it was the right decision. Absolutely awesome boat. Immensely challenging to sail at first but once you learn to be gentle with it and not leap around like an idiot it's just beautiful. It does everything you ask of it and still surprises me every time I sail it.

The sails last ages, the hull is bulletproof and surprisingly good in big waves - at the Nationals this year, we had a solid Force 5 and 15-20 foot waves. It was beautifully behaved in the waves and that day is still the biggest buzz I've ever had in a boat. The net result is that two years ago I was planning to do a couple more seasons and then sell up and buy a cheap rallycross car and find a new way to injure myself.  Instead I'm cutting 7 days in mauritius off my honeymoon so I can afford to go to Garda for the 300 eurocup instead!

For a balanced view speak to Steve at Rooster - he's stuffed everyone in both classes a multitude of times!

As for local 300's, the legend that is Bazza Steel sails at Aldenham and a nicer guy you will not meet. The 300 is definately a growing class and it's a cracking bunch of people who just love sailing.

Another biased post

I sail a Blaze but a couple of years ago decided to swap to an RS300 - After half a season I reckoned it was time to put the spare boat on the market and it took 9 months to flog the 300. Which incidentally given its age and number of owners means it must have spent a lot of its life  with a for sale sign hung round its neck.

I'm an average club sailor - usually in the front half of a fleet but not if its a good fleet. Like most I enjoy the stronger winds more than the lighter. That's why the Blaze wins. Its quick and a blast in strong winds ( 30 kn with waves is sooo much fun) The 300 is quick - if you can get it going - but unless your sail set is perfect and your commitment 100% and you are well in practise then you are going nowhere. Granted that in under 10kn the 300 is much quicker - there is so little boat in the water compared to the wider Blaze but   where do you get the fun and for most of us - let's be honest about our abilities.

Feeling quite depressed about the 300  until on the only 300 open I did I noted that out of 6 boats 3 of us were limping about and spilling wind trying to get home. Meanwhile the Blazes were yelling yeehaa. The ratbags.  The last time I sailed with 300s only 2 showed up ( Not the local good guys either) and the 6 of us in Blazes in the next start usually caught them up so the speed difference really isn't that high.

Neither is perfect neither is wholly bad Anyone thinking of one should do the usual things - See what's sailed locally and get a test sail but I'd advise get two tests - in  light and strong winds.   Its a shame the EPS has vanished as that looked to be between the two boats and might have had the best of both worlds. I never sailed one.

Pete

lol

i must admit they did not look that good frem the photos

I wondered about both boats a few years ago and opted for the Blaze which I thoroughly enjoyed sailing. I only stopped sailing Blazes because I missed 2 man sailing too much and couldn't afford 2 boats.

My reasons for choosing the Blaze over the RS300 were:

Firstly, although the RS300 is by far the more attractive looking boat, it is also significantly more difficult to sail. As I only sail once a week, I did not want to spend too much time swimming! Even Steve Cockrill has described the RS300 as one of the more challenging boats he has mastered and he is alot better sailor than me. He also enjoys the Blaze so it can't be that boring!

Secondly, the secondhand market is very active in Blazes and at the time I looked RS300s were sticking. I would always rather have a boat that can be sold when I want to sell it.

We have a couple at our club, which I've borrowed on occasion, and I've enjoyed sailing them immensly. I don't think they carry weight all that well, though, but an excellent light weights boat, which the 300, certainly, isn't. We also have a couple of Blazes, which are fun to sail, though at 10 1/2 stone I feel quite small when the wind picks up.

Quick update...

The RS300 is seeing a big resurgance this year with the major restructuring of the RS class association and the creation of the class specific owners clubs.

They're taking orders for new boats again and second hand boats are very much in demand.

Cheers

Ian

RS700 GBR912

Have you or Jeffers considered the Contender?  Cheap boats available, powerful, should see off Phantoms.

RS600's are very reasonable these days - a lot of bangs for your buck.

The Contenders a good choice too, much more stable but second hand examples were pretty rare when I sold mine last year.

What else is sailing around your area?

Ian

RS700 GBR912

Jeffers check out http://www.rs300.com/ - http://www.rs300.com/  and the vidoes under RS300 media to see what the 300 is about.

The 300 is a hard boat to sail if you do not sail well. It is unforgiving and won't let you get away with sloppy sailing, becasuse of this the 300 will improve your sailing on all points so much and will make you a very competant sailor. However, the rig is easy to depower, lots of righting movement due to the leverage on the wings and the cockpit is a great design with all the bits of string always at your fingertips. The 300 will take about a year to get used to and then still lots of learning but the fun starts straight away. You will swim but after a couple of capzies you will be able to right the boat in a matter of seconds without getting wet (unless you nose dive! Once in four years is not bad going for me). Don't worry about the capsize becasue everybody drops the 300.

Try both boats serveral times and remember that the 300 takes time. In the past all too many people have bought one and sold it within a year. Those guys have just scratched the surface of what is remarkable boat has to offer and have missed out on the best parts.

Whatever you get I hope it's the right boat for you and enjoy it.

Dics

Oh yes you don't need to be fit to sail one either! The 300 will make you fit!

I am 6ft tall and 85kg.... Just tired of being hammered by the Phantoms at our club and want to have a bit more fun (means I won't get class racing but you pays your money you takes your choice!).

Paul - At Burghfield we race Blaze against Phantom nearly every week and have done for several years now - so are in a good position to shed some light on this one.  Over a series we find they are similar in speed with a modern (carbon rigged) Phantom enjoying the edge on lighter days and the Blaze when it blows. The break point being 7-8kn.  The Blaze IMHO is also particularly effective in waves and wind when its leverage enables a lot of power to be applied.  It also has less rocker which gives it a higher top speed but this means it tacks a little slower than the Phantom.  Both boats have a wide crew  weight range but there is significant overlap between the two.  At 85 kg you would be towards the ligher end of the Phantom weight range but only just above the middle of the Blaze (association) one.   The weights of the crews in the top three positions at the 53 boat Nationals in in 2005 were approx 76kg, 82kg, 103kg - the advantage of a stayed refined rig is that you can set it up to suit YOU !  Both are good boats that are relatively fast, forgiving and refined and you could have a lot of fun in either (or even in a 300 if grabs your imagination).  My recommendation is to try all three but also consider others as well.  As some have suggested if you want to go faster still the Contender is a great boat or you could spend a little less and look at a 600 or more and add in the 2 or 3 sail singlehanders. 

Cheers - Mike '720'  Blaze Class Association  

I heard of a 300 selling within the day of it's advert for sale not so long ago. Doesn't sound like a sticking market to me!

The RS300’s reputation as an unsailable boat is totally unfair! I believe it is a boat many more people could master if they would only give it a try. I don’t find it much different from my laser radial.

I think the 300 has got the reputation as a tricky boat from people who have taken one out and spent the whole time swimming because they haven’t known how to set her up for safe sailing. The 300 is relatively easy to sail with the kicker tight, as this takes masses of power from the rig and also prevents nose diving! The boat is also far easier to sail if you sit a little too far back. All problems solved in two easy steps!

Most people underestimate how much kicker the rig can take & the amount needed certainly at first seemed excessive, but this is compared to the laser where at the windward mark if you don’t let the kicker off you get a bent mast & a bucket load of weather helm! Then as you improve you can sit further forward & the settings can be released to a faster setting. Steve Cockerill points this out in his article on the boat when he says: “…speed or stability. You can go for either... but not both.”

I was lucky enough to be told when I started off in the 300 to “flatten the sail & keep her flat” by the other 300 sailors at my club & this is certainly good advice. If it was more widely known I’m sure the boat would not have such an unjust reputation!

85KG shouldn't be too light for a modern rigged Phantom.  A common mistake is people don't realise how much mast rake and kicker to use when its windy.  There is a video on the Phantom web site showing Nick Beloe tacking at a windy open, he has to release kicker prior to the tack to allow the boom to clear the side deck!

I sold my Contender because it was just no fun on a small ish lake, they great on the sea and in steady wind, but its very difficult to get them to race to handicap on confined waters.  I nearly bought a Blaze (Mike you may recall me emailing you about 2 years ago) but I was badly let down by a seller - I drove 100 miles to view one only to find the owner didn't turn up, and then told me he had sold it and probably should have phoned me when questioned!  So I bought an old Phantom to see what they were like, loved it and then bought a new one.

But as has previously been said everybody is different.  The RS didn't suit me - I found it uncomfortable and frankly I didn't understand how the rig worked.  I was used to wires holding up the mast. 

I am sure it would be possible to arrange a test sail in any class you choose, thats the best way.

Visit RS300.com and look for a club near you on the club listing - any of the contacts will be delighted to loan you a boat to have a go in.

I'd like to address some of the criticisms raised about the 300:

It is far from unsailable, it's actually pretty easy to sail, if you sail it properly. By properly, I mean keep it flat, pay attention to boat trim and move smoothly around the boat. It doesn't forgive sloppy sailing and if you don't use the kicker properly you will always be overpowered. After all - there's 10metres of sail there.

The class is alive and kicking. We had 29 boats at the Nationals this year, 20 boats at the inlands and a strong, well attended travellers circuit. Used boats are selling within days. Some within hours. LDC are building new ones and we will be attending the Eurocup at Garda for the first time this year.

Soon after launch the 300 got a lot of criticism for being impossible to sail; this is down to people who got in the boat expecting it to be like a big Laser and soon discovered that they were making a lot of basic errors. I am a good club sailor at best and it took me six weekends to get on top of the thing and be able to sail it round a course at a competitive speed in a force 4.

I really recommend you try one, just don't write it off because it's not really easy first time out. Master a 300 and you'll be able to make just about anything go quickly.

Hi Again - I don't think there was much criticism of the 300, from the Blaze and Phantom fans at least, its a great boat - but one amongst a number of others.  But it is a demanding one and not perhaps for everybody.  Everybody should ultimately sail what they prefer though and I hope we'd be the last to 'pan' anybody else's favorite.  There is no such thing as the 'nicest' or 'best' hiking singlehander anyway and it's all down to the individual to decide for themsleves what they prefer. 

I'm simply delighted that people want to sail racing dingies of any type and perhaps we could move on a bit from the "my team is the only good team" sentiments - no Man.U fan is ever going to convince a London club follower they are the 'best team'  or vice versa so perhaps we should all agree that it would be exceedingly boring if we all raced the same boats ....  and actualy appreciate the fact we have a number of really good and worthy  choices available for us in the UK.

Don't waste any more time here - it's all a load of b****cks anyway, put on the steamer and just try them all !  and if it's too cold have a look over them at the Boat Show and drink a Guiness or two before you buy one.

Cheers - Mike '720'  Blaze Class Association

Well said Mike!

I was reacting to one post made earlier in this thread though ;)

.....Not going to make it to the boat show but I will definitely try and get to Ali Pali. Are the respective classes going to have stands there aside from the manufacturers?

We have been there independently as the Blaze class association for many years already.  We are totally and only funded by our memebers and by HP who sponsor several of our events each year.  See you there .....

Regards - Mike (Blaze class association)  http://www.blaze-sailing.org.uki - www.blaze-sailing.org.uk  

"and by HP who sponsor"

The sauce or the computers??! The former would probebly mean better tasting chips after sailing, wouldn't it, but I suspect it is in the latter that the money resides!

I'd just like to my point to RS300 / Blaze / Phantom discussion.

Having sailed both RS300's & Phantoms at the top level, both are great boats as probably is the Blaze. Any moderate ablity Laser sailer should be able to understand the rig and  techniques needed to sail them all well.

All will perform well on handicap if sailed on the right sized water (for the boat).

RS300 - Its a single handed skiff and should be sailed acordingly it needs between 75 & 95 KGS to work well It likes slightly larger lakes to perform well i.e. Oxford, Datchet, Grafham, Chew, Bristol etc. but probably not Burghfield (even you have some of the best 300 sailors in the country) as its all about boatspeed & handling therefore its not into loads of tacking, optimum winds more than people think...10-15mph. Its fast at running as you can run by the lee etc, however can be a big wobbly downwind espically in waves (but that just makes it even more fun)

Blaze - Its got a little more boat in the water, therefore slower in the lighter stuff but the racks give you a huge amount leverage in a breeze, also as its not "On the edge in a breeze" in the same way as the RS300 therefore would suit a slightly slower helm (without reflex's of a cat)

Phantom - Its the bigger mans boat, crew weights range between 85-105 KGS. mainly as it has a much longer waterline length. Its slower on handicap & some people call it mis rated (or worse) however this is because the boat is optimised to the smaller lake, its has a greater sail area in relation to its width & loves 5-10 mph with loads of shifts   If you want to go fast when its blowing you really need to be >95KGS. Top 3 at last years nationals were 103, 104 & 105 KGS (it was windy) add waves and it slows right down in comparison with the other 2 However  its also a great sail with slightly larger fleets at the nationals (70+ club) The Phantom has the most complicated rig (including options of builders & sailmakers) This possibly makes the Phantom slightly more expensive in the long run.

You pays your money & you makes your choice, everytime you will be better off sailing against other boats in the same class as you. Otherwise consider the venue you will be sailing at most often. This can either make you a cowboy or a slow boy...depends on the conditions...

WG (2006)

Grey Virgin

Not a bad appraisal in part but you simply have to try a Blaze to get the full picture.  There are perhaps more 'bar myths' and opinions around it than any of the others !  Implying it might only be suited for 'slow helms' is frankly inaccurate and misleading.  It is just as possible to say that the 300 is a 'slow helms' version of the Moth which I think you will agree requires a much higher skill level ... or that a Contender is a 'slow helms'  RS600. It's missing the point entirely and I think you should agree that the Phantom could just as easily, be labled as suitable for 'slower' helms, but that description does not serve as an appropriate summary for that great boat either.   The Laser, Solo etc are 'easier' boats as well but that means really big fleets and fantastic racing for a lot of people.

We enjoy exceptionally large fleets relative to our numbers as well and tight racing in a wide range of conditions because more people can extract the available performance more of the time - capable helms really will find it no less challenge though !.  That does mean that the tactical side becomes especially important in these classes and along the way the vast majority of helms have a great time.  I have competitively raced all three mentioned by you, like all three and appreciate their differing qualities.  I choose to sail the boat that best suits where I like to sail in the sort of weather range that give me a personal 'high' - anyway each to their own and I'm sure we could get you a sail if you wanted in a Blaze.  

Come along .... why don't the CA's get together and organise a shared meeting along similar lines to 'fastsail'....  Last year I spoke to several other CA's about the possibility of a 'single-sail, hiking multi-class singlehander event' - Datchet are interested and would be prepared to host it.  Anyone in the 300's, Phantom's, or any other class interested ?  Let's meet up at the Dinghy Show in March.

Regards - Mike '720'  Blaze Class Association       

The Blazes will be using the Scottish Single Handed event at Lochaber ( Fort William - Scotland - about half way up - on the left ) as a Travellers event within the SSH event.  Everything from Toppers to Contenders and  none of us gets to blame the crew.

Pete

Paul,

On the 300 chat group Kevan at Milton Keynes said you should give him a call -

Kevan Ball - mailto:kpb_uk01@yahoo.co.uk - kpb_uk01@yahoo.co.uk or 078 1742 1720

Milton Keynes have an open this weekend so if you get yourself down there I'm sure a few of the 300 sailors would be delighted to have a chat with you and get a test sail sorted out. Details are:

MKSC Icicle Open
Pursuit Sunday 15th Jan. 2 hour race, briefing at
11:30, first boat away at 12:00, Entry fee is £4.00
per boat.

Can I introduce the Supernova into the equation. The boat is a strict one design as far as the hull, rig, and foils, are concerned. It supports a crew weight somewhere between 60 and 90kg, so slighly less than the others mentioned. It will excell on more restricted waters as its much narrower than the above. It will also be easier to sail and much more readily manouverable than any oof the others. On restricted waters it would certainly give a any of the above a run for their money!

I'm not sure that I agree with the above.  The supernova is not in the same league as the 300, Blaze or the Phantom.

I have raced supernovas in both my 300 and my phantom on restricted waters and the only time that they were even slighlty close was on the startline.

Grey Virgin

We appear to have to rattled your bars there !  Sorry it's this medium.   The Blaze has enjoyed a number of shared meetings with other singlehanders in recent years especially with Finns and IC's, Contenders and Europes and just occasionally with Phantoms and 300's.  There is always some good natured rivalry of course but I don't think many of us would go quite so far as to suggest that those representing any other class might in fact 'be too chicken'.  Speaking with reference to the Blaze Association we go out of our way and it is our stated policy to set up multi-class events and share venues - we enjoy it whatever class 'dominates' on the day and its a great way of promoting the class.  Look back along this thread a bit more carefully and you will find I am PROPOSING that we get together to organise some more and larger events - not exactly what 'chickens' tend to do ! 

At Burghfield, home club to a fair few of us the fast handicap class is largely made up of Blazes, 300's and Phantoms, perhaps one of the few clubs where this occurs.  Relative conditions frequently decide which class is advantaged but unfavorable conditions for one class force it to work even harder under racing conditions - great training for all across a series.  Perhaps a few of us will come along to Northampton etc ... just to observe of course from a very respectful distance behind ... the Phantoms stuffing the Finns. :-) ....Now have I got that the wrong  way round ? ....  not a boast I'd make personally perhaps !  .... and another thing .. I know the Phantoms have a reputation for the odd Stella but where exactly did they all get to on New Years day .... 

Seriously we are very keen to get a 'single-sail' series going and last March organised a meeting at Alexandra Palace, assisted and supported by those behind 'fast-sail'  with the OK's, Europe's and others to work on the idea.  I approached Datchet later last year and they would be prepared to host a first event .... Perhaps we can get the thing moving quickly if there is a growing level support form other classes.  OK I'll buy the beers at the Dinghy show then .....

Mike '720'  - Blaze Class Association 

i have not red all the other pager and im not going to so if this has been sujested dont take any notis but

have you thoght about a vareo ok up wind there that same as a laser but when you down wind they are amasing and good fun to sail

ok i may be biast but i think it would be a beter boat to get

i think for a one man hiking boat they are the best for down wind

dut am also hounist that up wind they have no advantig over a laser apart for they are alot mone over powering and good fun and you can not say a laser is good fun i dont think so any way

dut am also hounist that up wind they have no advantig over a laser apart for they are alot mone over powering and good fun and you can not say a laser is good fun i dont think so any way

Laser are good fun for someone who is just getting into a class from something smaller but after a while you get the feeling that you need something more.  I got my 300 after my laser and it was good cause you learn new things

That's very interesting because my experiences have been to the contrary.

At my local club, Welwyn garden City Sailing Club, Supernovas and Phantoms both sail, and the Supernovas will always beat the Phantoms over the water, never mind on handicap!

lol

well back to the blase 300 and vareo

i know wich one i would have as iv got it and that is the one i would get agen

theres only one other thing i wuold get and that is if they put the kite off the vareo on the 300

5420, how many of the three have you sailed/owned?

only one but i know people that have sailed all three and they all say the vareo is the best

but i think the 300 think with the kite would be cool

do you sail at hunts then

because if so then the vareo would not be a good opshon any way as you have to sail windwod lewod races in it as the kite is to big to go on a proper reach with

you realy have to sail them at clubs like grafam where you can get the full benafit of the hany cap wich is still not fare

85kg, so that's 13stone. You should be OK in a Supernova at that weight. I think Frank (the Supernova desginer and member at Welwyn) must weih about that much. And, the same for Chris Clarke, the other Supernova sailor. Anyway, as you say best to give it a go and make up wour own mind. There is no substitute for trying things for yourself!

I think your right about the reason the Supernovas do well at Welwyn. And also I think it is partly due to the fully battened main hold it's shape in the really light stuff. Welwyn IS tiny, about 16acres I think. Thats what I meant by restrcited waters.

Despite this, I can highly reccomend sailing in a fleet of other boats. As I'm sure you have found in the Laser it is so much more fun to race other boats of the same class, than to be in a handicap race. If there is already a fleet of Phantoms at your club, with their "own start" then it would be great to be involved with that. As you say, the club may let you join the Phantom fleet in a Blaze, but it just won't be the same. As has already been mentioned in this thread, they thrive in different winds, and so you would never eeally be on "an even keel".

i dont sail at hunts but i think i know who you are do you help with the traning for the cambs team

yer iv sailed the 200 a bit and its good on that kind of corse as you can hold the kite so highy on them

Jeffers, forget the supernova, I've never had a supernova get near me on the water, let alone on handicap when sailing a laser.  If you're bored of your laser, a supernova looks to me to be a step backwards, though they would be more convenient to rig up!  Although I've never sailed one, I think the RS300 would offer the best challenge/performance/value.

Paul

A 300 has come up for sale on http://www.rs300.com/ - http://www.rs300.com/  sail no 471. Be quick or miss out this time round.

yer i was in the team i sailed the laser full rig my name is jamie

i also done the cambs team racing for grafham

180467 is my sail number

  It's the Blaze for me. It has everything you need from a racing singlehander. 

   -  It's comfortable in all winds.

   -  The build quality is amazing with excellent support from topper.

   -  Easy to sail, allowing better one design racing.

   -  A weight range like no other boat.  Guys of 10Stone race on equal terms    with guys of 18Stone.

   -  The class is booming with 50+ Entries at Nats.   An established Scottish Circuit and a Northern circuit beling developed.

   -  We had force 6/7 winds at the Nationals with big seas and more than half the boats finished the race. The Laser ruined my knees, the contender and 600 need a force 4 to perform on handicap. The Phantom and Finn are too expensive and the 300 is becomming a youth / student fleet, and is hard to sail!!! 

Controversial? No, just telling it like it is.

yer but some people like a chalenge and go for boats like the 300 i would

i would get the blase over boats like the laser any day but i think the 300 is beter

5420 said:    yer but some people like a chalenge and go for boats like the 300 i would  ....

No disrespect to anyone out there .... but there is plenty of challenge in boats like the Phantom and Blaze etc - it's very far from being the preserve of the 300 alone.  Besides if you want a real handling challenge why not go Moth foiling or go MPS or IC or 700 ?  All you are saying is that you like the 300, fine ...many of us do even if we choose to race other boats.  But you should get one asap though ... you might even be able to PX the vario aganst one at RS  :-)    

But racing is so much more than simply mastering the equipment !   ... It takes even longer .....

Mike '720'

LOL

Me I sail a Blaze. Id love to try a 300 but cant ever see me wanting one, its just not versatile enough. Id love a Phantom but at 10 ½ stone Ill never be able to sail one in any kind of wind and apart from the fun of playing with the kite a Vareo has never appealed.

Me I wanted a performance single hander that I could sail in any wind strength. And the Blaze fills this requirement for me perfectly. At my weight I am never that competitive in fleet racing once it gets above a good 4 but I can win handicap races in anything up to a 7 because as the wind builds the boat is just awesome.

In a force 1-2 the Blaze struggles to live with a good Phantom and is about the same speed on the water as the local 300’s ! They are a much quicker boat but from my experience the average sailor struggles to get the best out of one. Although they do look awesome in the hands of some one that can handle it.

In a force 3 the Phantoms and Blazes have a great battle with the 300’s now dropping off the back. Once it gets up to this speed you can start looking to foot off for speed rather than just pointing, getting it right can be so rewarding.

Force 4 and above and the 300’s struggle, the Phantoms are sweating and the Blaze really starts to work well. With plenty of leverage and excellent controls that let you adjust the sail exactly as you need its easy for any one to get the boat singing.

The vareos never seem able to compete. If the course has a lot of deep spinni runs they do ok but in any kind of reasonable wind they seem to have to work as hard as the phantoms but with out the performance. They go up wind like slugs in comparison and cant hold there kites on a tight reach… where the Blaze and Phantoms are just awesome. Either way at our club they are like 300’s . All the boats seem to change hands every year as each successive new owner realises that the bad days outway the good ones.

I’m not trying to knock the other classes here just give the reasons for my choice, based on the observations that I made, for what there worth.

Finally Topper are selling more Blazes now than ever before, the national attendances are growing and growing and many people are on their second or third boat. Maybe they don’t appeal to everyone but clearly those that they do, and that like them, tend to keep them.

Still unsure though, I have an open offer of a go in an RS300 and I am going to try and get to Burghfield for a go in the demo boat (this weekend looks a bit too exciting for trying a boat though).

Paul - Well come along anyway, you might still be tempted on the water if it's near the bottom of the projected range and still a get a good insight if it does look prudent to watch from the balcony.  Its one of the '6-Pack' series days for Blazes and with a reasonable wind forecast we should get a good few out.  There is still a good 300 at Burghfield so you should be able to judge both - maybe even try both.  There are also a few goodish Phantoms likely.   Most recent forecasts suggest an aaverage 12-15mph and relatively warm.  We might even be able to tempt Mr Foxwell over from the Medway like last year - come on Ian, I don't think anyone is faster offwind in some conditions - but you might be a little more hard pressed upwind :-) on Sunday.  Dave Hewlett is threatening to get some more video footage so you can have your '15 minutes' if you want.  First race 11.00 - see you all there.

Mike '720'     

how good is the blase fleet how meany boats do you get out at opens

they look good fun to sail but when it gets breasy you go very fast but not much gos rong looking at the photos

i must admit it is a hard one i think it come down to your own style of sailing

id think id have to sail them both first

5420 said ..... they look good fun to sail but when it gets breasy you go very fast but not much gos rong looking at the photos

It's all relative but don't underestimate the technique required to get around and race at high speed on a 2.48m wide winged boat in fast moving 'wind angainst tide' - stability is different things to different people -  so have a look at the video links on http://www.blaze-sailing.org.uki - www.blaze-sailing.org.uk  - There are some on the bottom left hand side of the home page and another group that can be seen towards the bottom of the 'for sale' section.  Dave Hewett made a very reasonable video and these are all lower resolution extracts. 

It's fun but you always have to discover for yourself what suits you and your approach by 'doing' not talking.  Try them all - discount most of the banter here and then go for the one you like.

Mike '720'   

Exactly

Its stable enough that you can stand up before the start looking for the wind, marks etc, or just to stretch your legs. But then try role tacking efficiently in the light winds with those racks or jibing inside another boat in the strong stuff with all that distance to cover… it can all get very hard work / wet if your not on your toes.

The beauty is that if your not sure you don't have to roll that hard and you can always steer clear of the opposition and jib when its suits you if that's what you want.

The trouble with the scary boats is that they are always scary. Get something that's inherently tame but bites if you screw up and then even the bad days can be fun

Ian
702

Actually the Blaze rolls OK - just keep the rack out the water.  

Don't kid yourself about nothing going wrong in a Blaze in a blow It can do and will do. However you'll find the exception you remember is when it goes wrong - in other twitchier boats the exception you remember is when it goes right.

Pete

Sounds like the blaze is only fun when it blows. If I was you I would send Steve Cockrall an email at rooster he will be able to give you a none biased view. I spoke to him before I bought my 300 with regards to this subject and I took his advice. It’s the best boat I have ever sailed and there is no other that comes close. There is a learning curve but it is very rewarding. I have tried a phantom and I am far too light for one at 11 stone and there is no way I could keep up with the current arms race. The 300 fleet is by far the friendliest I have ever raced in I was one of the youngest at the nationals this year at 25 so I would not agree that it is a youth boat. If you look on http://www.rs300.com/ - www.rs300.com there is a survey showing the broad range that sails them.

Paul

Best to keep it quiet.

I promise I won't tell anyone

Not at all - its more fun when  the winds up.  I found the Rs300  was no fun when overpowered but if you want to be a real high wind specialist try a Hobie. Blows both away. However,  as someone else posted - what do you want to do in a race - fight your boat or fight other boats.  FYI the speed difference is really only relevant in light winds when the 300 scoots away. In a blow they do about the same.

Pete

If you want the best and mostly likely unbiased opinion, I suggest you ask Rooster. When I spoke to Steve about this debate the other day, he is a fan of both the 300 and Blaze (and is or has been National Champion in both).

Interestingly that at the boat show, Topper has a Blaze on their stand whilst RS failed to show off the 300. This is a real shame as the 300 remains the only boat of it's type and there seems to be real interest in the class now. Thank goodness for the Dinghy Show when manufacturers do not decide what will promoted but the enthusiastic sailors promote their class for all to see.

If you find yourself over powered in a 300, then you're doing something wrong. That rig can be depowerd a ridiculous amount!

Pabs noted that he's 11 stone and, he also does damn well in the 300 fleet. There's been at least three events in the 300 calendar this year where Pabs and I have finished either on equal points or within one point of each other and yet I'm 3 and a half stone heavier than he is. Within the 300 fleet the range of sailors runs from 52kgs to 112kgs. Yet the two at those extremes finished very close together at the nationals - I doubt there's many classes that can provide close racing for such a wide range.

I've done a couple of seasons now in the Phantom and the arms race must have passed me by, there is only one supplier of plastic hulls and the usual healthy selection of sailmakers in the top 10 at the nats, P&B, North, Redeye, Banks so I am not quite sure what you mean.

This is all starting to going round in circles - STOP,  cadge a loan or two and simply go sailing in these boats and then just decide which one suits you.  All suit somebody, all have a good following and all are great fun.  The respective class associations will be more than willing to help you  as well .... just do it !

Mike - Blaze 720

Then there's the whole steel/carbon rig thing and different sail cuts for masts etc. They're lovely boats Phantoms but terrifyingly expensive...

Many people would rather have a choice over just having to accept what the smods lumber you with.

Yes - but you don't have to just because you sail a SMOD - Get your CA to do its job a bit more proactively.  The traditional classes learnt from the most recent SMOD invasion in the mid-90's (eg Fireball) Now the SMOD CA's should learn from the traditional classes - Evolve or die .....

Mike '720'