Holding the tiller extension

   Hi, I'm trying to adapt my helming technique to the modern RYA 'crossed 

daggers' method.

However, I'm stuggling to change the habit of a lifetime - ie. having the tiller 

extension over my rear shoulder - and find that the extension is hitting my 

chest, thus restricting the amount of movement I can make with it.

Any tips?

Phil 

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Philsy Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 12 Sep 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 344	Post Options Post Reply Quote Philsy Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Holding the tiller extension Posted: 11 Jul 06 at 8:35am
	Hi, I'm trying to adapt my helming technique to the modern RYA 'crossed daggers' method. However, I'm stuggling to change the habit of a lifetime - ie. having the tiller extension over my rear shoulder - and find that the extension is hitting my chest, thus restricting the amount of movement I can make with it. Any tips? Phil

Offshoretiger Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Posting king Joined: 12 Jan 05 Location: Scotland Online Status: Offline Posts: 179	Post Options Post Reply Quote Offshoretiger Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jul 06 at 9:40am
	What boat are you sailing? and do you normaly hike when your helming? Only time i used to find having the tiller over my chest was anoying was when it was to light to hike, as soon as I was hiked a bit it stopped being a problem
	...yesterday I couldnt spell enginner...now I are one!......

Philsy Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 12 Sep 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 344	Post Options Post Reply Quote Philsy Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jul 06 at 9:45am
	Hi, thanks for the reply. It's a Xenon. I hike if there's enough wind, but when there isn't, like you, I have the problem. Phil

jeffers Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048	Post Options Post Reply Quote jeffers Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jul 06 at 10:12am
	Hi Philsy, I generally find that holding the extension across your chest works very well. When it is windy you are hiked out and it is up and out the way, when it is light you should be getting forward which helps eliminate the excessive length of the extension. If you find this is a problem it may be worth you getting a telescopic extension that you can shorten as required. I find that 'pan handle' style use of the tiller extension is really awkward (but I have always sailed boats where it is more comfy holding it in front of you). Paul
	Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74

Philsy Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 12 Sep 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 344	Post Options Post Reply Quote Philsy Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jul 06 at 10:17am
	Hi Paul Moving forward certainly helps, but in the Xenon there's a large hoop for the mainsheet which limits the helm's position somewhat. I don't use the 'pan handle' method but rather hold the extension like a dagger, in my back hand so, in light winds, it is over my back shoulder - that was how I was taught, er, 30 years ago. It works fine, but I'd like to change to the modern method. Cheers Phil

Garry Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 18 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 536	Post Options Post Reply Quote Garry Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jul 06 at 11:06am
	Isn't the xenon a two man boat? Upwind in the light stuff the crew should balance the boat so you can still sit far enough out to be comfortable and see the jib luff. Downwind you need to sit to leeward so the crew can see the spinnaler luff. In both cases you should be able to find a comfortable position by adjusting where you sit. Personally I prefer a longer extension as it allows you more freedom but can get in the way. No reason why you cant move forward of the hoop in the light stuff (better trim anyway) and just slide back when you want to tack.
	Garry Lark 2252, Contender 298 www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk

Ian99 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Posting king Joined: 07 Apr 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 138	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ian99 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jul 06 at 1:33pm
	The "crossed daggers" technique is only really useful for going round marks and very gusty or windy conditions as it gives you greater control over the mainsheet as you have now two hands available for this vital steering control. Holding the tiller in this position in light to medium winds is actually quite slow as you unintentionally move the rudder with every small wave disrupting the flow of water over it and hence slowing the boat down. You will see quite a few of the top sailors holding the tiller against the deck (in the "pan handle" position, but held from above) to stop this happening in these conditons.

Philsy Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 12 Sep 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 344	Post Options Post Reply Quote Philsy Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jul 06 at 4:50pm
	Interesting point, but doesn't the RYA now teach people to sail this way only? By a happy coincidence I was out photographing a sailing instructor this afternoon (long story...) and he gave me some tips on this. He admitted that it's a difficult to learn to tack this way, but it's worth perservering. Phil

Matt Jackson Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 21 Sep 04 Location: Darlington Online Status: Offline Posts: 962	Post Options Post Reply Quote Matt Jackson Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jul 06 at 5:30pm
	Am I being really dull here? I have no idea what you're talking about! I assume Pan handle means like holding a frying pan but crossed daggers (seems a little dangerous to me)? Someone please post some pictures!
	Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36

mike ellis Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 30 Dec 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2339	Post Options Post Reply Quote mike ellis Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jul 06 at 5:31pm
	i always sail with the tiller over my shoulderin the "dagger position". i havent heard of the crossed swords or whatever the new way is . i dont find it a problem if its over my shoulder because in the feva the tiller is quite short. but in the light i prefer to pin it to the deck as ian said.
	600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318