Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Strange lee/weather helm effect |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 13 Jul 06 at 4:49am |
Rig tension is a lot less critical in non trapeze boats.
Back in the early 70s before big rig tension (and boats that could take it) there used to be a moderate wind situation where the gust would come, crew would hit the trapeze, all the tension would come off the windward shroud and onto the leeward one, the spreaders instead of pushing the mid mast to leeward by the tension in the windward shroud would be pushing the mid mast to windward, the top of the rig would flop off, the whole thing depower, and back off the trapeze again... So if the crew is on the wire and you reduce the rig tension on your 4T the spreaders are doing less and the rig depowers. On an RS400, by contrast, this doesn't happen nearly so much. So on a trapeze boat monumental rig tension keeps the windward spreader working... |
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redback ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502 |
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This is how I see it. The rig tension is the main factor in prebend of the mast. When the pressure on the rig starts to slacken the shrouds then the prebend is no longer under control. Its best if this transistion occurs at a wind speed which corresponds with the change from being underpowered to overpowered. The right rig tension is the one that creates this relationship. If the boat is not stiff enough the rig will slacken before you get maximum power and this may mean you lose power. I can certainly depower my 4000 rig by easing the rig tension (although there are other complicating factors like rake). A flexible boat will mean a rig which is unpredictable. This is only one of the reasons why a stiff hull just feels better than a floppy one.
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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It may seem odd, but it works. The classic boat for low rig tension is the Firefly, and the sails are cut to make low rig tension work. Our Firefly is nearly 50, and is still competitive in the fleet. I have my doubts that and Vagos will be racing in 50 years, but the premis is still the same - low rig tension means folding your boat up less, even though windward shrouds go tight. |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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redback ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502 |
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An easy way to check if the mast is upright is to cleat the main haliard so that it just touches the side deck on one side of the boat and then see if its the same on the other side of the boat.
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combat wombat ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 16 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 345 |
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Just to clarify, you should always carry some weather helm upwind. This is quicker as you make ground to windward better (with the rudder acting as a foil stopping you slipping off sideways better).
Obviously not too much though or the rudder drags too much. |
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B14 GBR 772
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Calum_Reid ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 59 |
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Shrouds are rarely the same length. It is sensible to measure them. You will be very lucky to have a set of exactly identicle shrouds!
OH and btw this talk of boats not being able to take rig tensions etc and using low ones to prtect the boat seems odd because when your sailing alon up the beat your leward shoud often goes slack meaning that there must be more tension in the windward shroud that the ammount of tension you have pulled on. Now you can stop the leward shroud going slack but it takes ALOT of tension. For example in the 400 (admitidly in a big breeze) we would sail with over 500lbs and still have a slack leward shroud. |
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Marine Boy ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 42 |
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Thanks for the replies all...
No, tiller is fine.
If you let go of the tiller on one tack it comes toward you and goes away on the opposite tack (equally about 4 seconds from central to fully across, beating in an F2).
My theory (fwiw) is that the shrouds are of unequal length (and always have been) but that when I originally set it up, because the CE was so close to the CLR that any sideways deviation of the mast wouldn't be that obvious. Now that I have moved the CE, the bias is now exagerated.
I have a suspicion that when it was 'balanced' (before I played silly bu**ers) that it pointed higher on one tack than the another but that I couldn't detect it.
I will do some serious measuring before I return to the original shroud settings and report back.
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Chris Noble ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 26 Nov 04 Location: Scotland Online Status: Offline Posts: 710 |
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really stupid suggestion, is your tiller bent?
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Competitive Boat Insurance From Noble Marine
FOR SALE: I14 2 Masts 2 poles 3 Booms, Foils Kites/Mains/Jibs too many to list. |
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m_liddell ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 27 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 583 |
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Check the spreaders.
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Martin W ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 27 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3 |
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Could you have the lower shroud tension much more on one side than the other . They are only done up with bits of string and it is quite easy to do. If one was very tight, and the other loose this might make it different one side to the other. If you tension them before putting on jib tension, it may even make the mast lean to one side regardless of the shroud tension, by twisting the whole rig. The mast would bend one way on one tack and the other on the other.
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Martin
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