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Has Laser dropped the 4000?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowhammer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Has Laser dropped the 4000?
    Posted: 15 Jun 06 at 2:57pm

you'd never get a 4k down to £5,500, Jeff VB struggled hard to keep the retail price of the V3000 below £5,000, and chosing North over Sobstad as the sailmaker has pushed it to £5150 ... £6k might be possible for a 4k at a similar quality to the current build (Laser price is £8k), maybe £6.5k - £7k with a lighter hull in higher grade materials (not composite rig), but you lose Laser's marketing leverage

wrt sails, Laser govern the rules (in consultation with the CA) but they may well agree to open sails, at the request of the class, if the boat is nearing the end of its product life cycle with them



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Post Options Post Options   Quote 49erGBR735HSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 06 at 2:08pm

If a new builder was appointed for the 4000 class, the best thing I could see is reducing build costs to bring the retail price of the class down. You can get very good 4000s for about £2000 to £3,500, if a builder was to sell the boats at about £4,500 to £5,500, I reckon the new boat sails would sky rocket a bit. The possibilty of opening the sail maker but keeping to the strict measurements of the sails would also be a positive step in the right direction

Dennis Watson 49er GBR735
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowhammer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 06 at 1:41pm

PS 30-40 kg off a L4k would be awesome (still equalised but around the new weight) ... the 2D (two design) route can be made work, and we've seen greatly increased interest in Laser 3ks after our move, not the bottom dropping out of the market that some people feared

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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowhammer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 06 at 1:31pm

20-30 a year was the threshlold for the 3k, but the class was also dead at that stage, which might go in favour of the 4k

BTW, if you want to move to an independent builder, write to Y&Y ... I did in Oct 03 and got star letter "Horrorscope for the Laser 3000" ... two weeks later Laser announced at our AGM that they were stopping build (then , now )

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Post Options Post Options   Quote SymBoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 06 at 12:23pm
Originally posted by Anna78

No Laser have not dropped it. I thought I would ask them having seen the questions posted. Their response was "We are still selling them well in Europe and some in the UK. It is their headline sporty boat and there are no current plans to stop production"

Hope this helps.

I did notice that Laser's latest venture (training at Weymouth) only covered training up to Laser 2000, despite there being some nice piccies of the 4000 in their brochure (sent in the last issue of Y&Y). This does rather conflict with the above statement.

As a matter of interest, how many 4000's have been built in the last 3 years?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote 49erGBR735HSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 06 at 1:18am
I really like the 4000 because the equalisation system works and that's why you get such a close fleet racing-wise. The boat is a modern day classic and I reckon that the next few years are going to be crucial to the future of the class. When boats like the Iso and 4000 first appeared, many people said that classes like the 505 and Fireball would fade out of existance. They are still going strong and that's because the designs are good with dedicated class associations, as I feel with the 4000. The Laser 4000 may not be at its peak as it was in the Euro-cup days but the class is still strong. If Laser are using terms such as "headline sporty boat" about the 4000, it can only be a positive if they are going to fully promote the boat in such a way. I tend to disagree with the idea of the design being sold to other boat builders to improve upon because a faster and lighter boat would destroy a key element of the 4000 class, equalised racing. It would divide the class between new and old boats, cause fragmentation and you might aswell design a new boat and wipe the slate clean with the class. I have heard that before launching the 4000 on the market, they had to tone it down because it was faster than the 5000 and would have overshadowed its bigger brother, so that's a basic idea of what modifying the boat could lead to in a performance gap between the original 4000 and a next generation one (and no, I'm not getting mixed up between the RS800 prototype / 49er case) 
Dennis Watson 49er GBR735
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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 06 at 11:21pm
There will no doubt be a day when this class fades but at the moment I can't see anything else which combines its many attributes.  Does anybody know any other single trapeze assymetric that carries such a weight range?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 49erGBR735HSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 06 at 8:34pm
I just hope that the Laser 4000 class stays healthy and doesn't go the way of other classes.
Dennis Watson 49er GBR735
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Post Options Post Options   Quote BBSCFaithfull Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 06 at 8:21pm
I just hope and pray that they give it to vandercraft to make!  Would make for a much better allround boat!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 49erGBR735HSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 06 at 6:02pm
Well, I reckon it's not good business to not include your "headline sporty boat" in the promotional material you distribute in the press, in fact I would be pushing the "headline" boat as much as possible. Looking back, the first steps for other classes being phased out by Laser such as the 5000 and 3000, was to cut funds for promotion, ie less adverts in y&y and other mags and not being included in brochures. What would be a good step for Laser for the class would be to encourage sailors in the 2000 class, ie family partnerships which have been in the class for a while to step up into the 4000, possibly offering good trade in prices for 2000 sailors trading up to a new 4000. In that way, Laser might gain a better hold on the 2nd hand 2000 market and might make a favourable profit, without too many 2000s flooding the market.
Dennis Watson 49er GBR735
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