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'Fake/Training' Laser Sails

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Bruce Starbuck View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bruce Starbuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 'Fake/Training' Laser Sails
    Posted: 21 Apr 06 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by NickA

the training sails are near-as-damn-it identical from a performance point of view

Yes.

Originally posted by NickA

it would be difficult to make anything faster without noticeably altering the shape or materials.

True, and why would a sailmaker want to when they are building to a price?

Originally posted by NickA

Why don't the class association just licence three or four sailmakers to make "official" sails within set shape limits? 

Because Laser own the brand, set the rules, supply the sails and get the ££s. It's not up to the class association.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 06 at 1:06pm

The conclusion seems to be

  • that the training sails are near-as-damn-it identical from a performance point of view:
  • that it would be difficult to make anything faster without noticeably altering the shape or materials.

Add the facts that laser have in the past themselves changed the fabric (and for radials, the cut too) resulting in a range of sail designs competing at once anyway.

Why don't the class association just licence three or four sailmakers to make "official" sails within set shape limits? 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Harry44981! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 06 at 12:38pm

The new topper sails aren't that bad, I think they are better than the hyde sails. They last longer, don't flutter at the leech as much in a breeze, and you can adjust the leech and footlines without it being a permanent change. Some people say they don't go as fast in light air, but I think this is due to needing different setting with them- loads of kicker, more outhaul, and slightly more downhaul.

Some people are trying to find Hyde sails, but the new sails are just as good IMO- and far cheaper.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bruce Starbuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 06 at 11:37am

A lot of clubs allow the non-authentic laser sails. Used to be the case with Topper sails too, until Topper dropped the price of the proper sails so much it wasn't worth any sailmaker trying to compete. I had a look at one of the new Topper sails the other day and it was of APPALLING quality. The cloth was really soft and stretchy (I'm not sure it can actually have been designed as sailcloth), the edges of the panels/patches/leech tabling were fraying badly, the seams were of uneven width along their length, ranging from 9mm to about 18mm, and the stitching was all wavy. Aparrently, the old-style Topper sails are now in big demand, so if you've got an unused one tucked away somewhere, it could be worth something!

Can't see Laser doing this though, so I guess sailmakers here will be able to carry on selling cheaper copies. The cloth the proper Laser sails are made from is (or used to be) Contender 3.8oz Polypreg, which is very good cloth and ideal for the job. Any sailmaker can get hold of this, so the type of cloth used isn't really an issue. There is no seam shape in a Laser sail apart from in the bottom seam and the vertical seam above the foot. Any sailmaker making "fake" Laser sails will just whack the seams together flat too, because it's quicker and easier, and also probably the right thing to do, so this won't be any different either.

As far as I can see, it would be difficult to make any improvements in the cloth or the shape. All the sailmaker has to do is copy the luff curve (which is easy) and the shape in the bottom seams. (easy). Any sailmaker copying Laser sails has to be selling them for considerably less than an official sail, so it's not worth them using any other cloth or trying to make any improvements, as they are building to a price.

I can't see why any club should have an issue with them being used for club racing.

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 06 at 11:05pm

Bump ... any more of you had experience with these at your club?

Rick

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Hector View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 06 at 1:03am
Google must be wondering who/what Kazormorgan is after dozens of hits from forumites. Of course when you put in the missing C google delivers the info - so they must be real.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 06 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by Bruce Starbuck

Originally posted by Guest#260

I have a feeling that post may be a bit like a joke only different ...

You were right, it was completely different to a joke.

Quite - I thought it was going to go along the Razor theme ...

Amazing that such an unusual name had not been indexed by Google.

I guess that is a reflection of our time that if we can't find somthing on Google we start to question it's existance ...

Rick

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Bruce Starbuck View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bruce Starbuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 06 at 2:04pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

I have a feeling that post may be a bit like a joke only different ...

You were right, it was completely different to a joke.

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Jon Emmett View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon Emmett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 06 at 11:17am

Website: http://www.kaczormorgan.co.uk/

Email: Ian@kaczormorgan.co.uk

Mobile: 07717 071679

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 06 at 10:08am

Originally posted by Norbert

Originally posted by Jon Emmett

If you are looking for good "training sails" Kazormorgan sails are good. Jon


Can't find kazormorgan on the web, can you post a url please. Banks have laser training sails at £268 a pop. [edit] Rooster are £205 [\edit]

I have a feeling that post may be a bit like a joke only different ...

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