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| Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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| Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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| Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Tasar PN |
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Medway Maniac 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788 |
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 Topic: Tasar PNPosted: 17 Apr 06 at 9:39pm |
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Check out this link, which gives the whole rationale, and according to which the Mylars are 'marginally faster': http://www.members.shaw.ca/raspencer/news/2005/mylar_12.html Lots more on the Australian Tasar web-site. |
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Chew my RS
Really should get out more
Joined: 05 Oct 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 790 |
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Posted: 18 Apr 06 at 8:39am |
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The new sails are marginally bigger, use a 'better' material and supposedly offer better gust response - they should therefore be faster. Frank Bethwaite is on record as saying he believes they are 5% faster, but that could just be marketting talk. The Aussie Tasar forum claims they are consistently much quicker than the dacron sails (except in the lightest of winds), but the UK site reports mixed results so far. I would have thought that a PN around 990 would be a fair first stab. Why I read these sites I don't know, I don't own a Tasar!
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tickel
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 21 Dec 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 408 |
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Posted: 18 Apr 06 at 9:32am |
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990!!!!!! blimey give us a chance!
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tickel
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combat wombat
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 16 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 345 |
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Posted: 18 Apr 06 at 10:09am |
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Its diffcult to see how a 2 man boat minus spinnaker which isn't
extreme (in beam or sail area) could get below 1000... Remember the
Fireball is around that (976 I think) and it has a kite and a
trapeze. Tasar is a good boat but not that quick!
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B14 GBR 772
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Blobby
Really should get out more
Joined: 07 May 04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 779 |
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Posted: 18 Apr 06 at 10:18am |
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Don't forget that the weather in Aus is very different to UK norm. 5% may be the improvement in the conditions where the new rig is better than the old rig but I can't see that across the whole weather spectrum.
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One step forwards, 2 steps back...
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Hector
Really should get out more
Joined: 10 May 04 Location: Otley, Yorkshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 750 |
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Posted: 18 Apr 06 at 1:19pm |
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Surely in all classes new sails are likely to be faster than old sails? So by definition any Tasar with new sails is likely to be quicker than it was. And as the performance gained is more likely to last, we might eventually see a slight decrease in PN. That would of course depend on sufficient returns (unlikely), and of course that the relative performance of Tasars at clubs sending returns is actually better. If the sails are bigger and performance improved, then the class should perhaps suggest a revised PN to clubs, but then why should they? Development classes don't, nor do 'one designs' when advances are made or for instance Carbon masts are allowed - so why should the Tasars get themselves penalised for a marginal improvement? |
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Isis
Really should get out more
Joined: 01 Sep 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2753 |
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Posted: 18 Apr 06 at 1:41pm |
The moth foilers are making a masive effort to get their handicap updated even though the majority of clubs are still quite happy to let them race off lowrider numbers. You must remember that for every new inovation a development class takes on to lower its PY, theres an increasing number of older boats who are still running last decades gear. The handicap must represent the average and not just keep pace with the most tricked-out in the fleet who would probibly be still quicker no mater how good the boat is they sailed |
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jeffers
Really should get out more
Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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Posted: 18 Apr 06 at 2:01pm |
This is exactly why the Fireball is a bit of a bandit boat on handicap. While there are quite a few of the 'new generation' of boats outh there now there are still thousand of boats being sailed on the weekends by club sailors, this is where the PY comes from. To add in to this some classes (most notably the Merlin Rocket and National 12) recommend PYs for the older generation boats so they can still be sailed comeptitively at handicap events. |
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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Chris 249
Really should get out more
Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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Posted: 18 Apr 06 at 2:30pm |
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"The handicap must represent
the average and not just keep pace with the most tricked-out in the
fleet who would probibly be still quicker no mater how good the boat is
they sailed".
Jeepers, that's a bit tough isn't it? It seems to give a free kick to anyone from a fast-developing class. if you have two sailors of equal skill, one from a strict OD and one from a fast-developing class where the newest gear is much quicker than the average, one guy would surely dominate. How fair is that? It does seem that even comparing one OD to another, the idea that the yardstick must develop with the average sailor (rather than the best) is pretty tough on some boats. In some classes I sail, the average sailor is pretty close to the front runners, in others the average sailor is miles behind just because of the nature of the boat. One example (not the best one though) would be Mistral windsurfer v Laser. The average Mistral sailor would get lapped by the Olympic medallists in many winds. The average Laser sailor is comparatively close to the Olympic medallists. Therefore if the two raced on yardstick (which used to happen) the Mistral sailor would win just about every time. Seems wrong to me. |
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jeffers
Really should get out more
Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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Posted: 18 Apr 06 at 3:18pm |
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Chris,
No one has ever said handicap racing is fair. Harsh but true. There will always be boats that have a favoured handicap. I would disagree about the comparitive abilities though. I was pretty good at club level sailing in my Laser but I would hate to think how I would do against the likes of Ainslie, Goodison and co. they would trash me all round the race course and lap me several times. Were I a windsurfer of similar ilk I would imagine I would fare better as windsurfing in a breeze seems to be more demanding than dinghy sailing the base level of ability should be higher. I have windsurfed before, I didn't really get on with it. Paul |
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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