So can any class change its sail plan, then sail around on its old PN, winning everything for a year or so, before anything changes?

Surely they should have a Trial Number until a number can be fairly allocated?

Check out this link, which gives the whole rationale, and according to which the Mylars are 'marginally faster':

http://www.members.shaw.ca/raspencer/news/2005/mylar_12.html - http://www.members.shaw.ca/raspencer/news/2005/mylar_12.html

Lots more on the Australian Tasar web-site.

Don't forget that the weather in Aus is very different to UK norm.  5% may be the improvement in the conditions where the new rig is better than the old rig but I can't see that across the whole weather spectrum.

Surely in all classes new sails are likely  to be faster than old sails? So by definition any Tasar with new sails is likely to be quicker than it was. And as the performance gained is more likely to last, we might eventually see a slight decrease in PN. That would of course depend on sufficient returns (unlikely), and of course that the relative performance of Tasars at clubs sending returns is actually better.

If the sails are bigger and performance improved, then the class should perhaps suggest a revised PN to clubs, but then why should they? Development classes don't, nor do 'one designs' when advances are made or for instance Carbon masts are allowed - so why should the Tasars get themselves penalised for a marginal improvement?

Nope, you completely make stuff up just to be funny

Like your sig... everyone knows Contender sailors are the best!!  (well, the tallest maybe... )

When I was younger, it was definately the case that 420s went soft after about 2-3 seasons, hence the reason that the squads would go through so many boats. Saying that though, older 420s were beating new boats but that may be due to sailor ability and nothing else. The re-sale value of the boats are really low due to the fact that they do go soft, and most youths go for the squads because if they are selected, they generally get a new boat or at worst, one that's a few seasons old, so what is the point in buying an expensive 420, when if you are good enough and needing a competitive boat, you can get one off the squad?

Ahem, back to Tasars then.

Do they say what mix is preferred? Our Fireballs & Merlins seem to go for Mylar main + Dacron jib, but as the new Tasar jib is bigger than the old one I can't see a lot of need for Dacron?

Hi Guys

Are there some budding Tasar fans out there?

The new sails are a huge improvement in 15 Knots plus, but not significant in lower wind strengths. Improved visibility means accurate jib sheeting is now easy which means the boat can be sailed to its maximum performance more easily.

My boat is 20 Yrs plus  old weighs in at 58Kg and DOES plane upwind so why are all the new mass produced boats so heavy and slow?!

 The current handicap is still difficult to sail too, even for the top boys. But at 22 Knots plus the world changes !!

We have plenty of demo boats available and have some great Nationals deals, if you are interested in checking out its handicap rather than just talking about it!!

Rod, Tasar 351 58kg 20 year old+ boat and still competeitive , eat your heart out 420s

Wow its great to see so much interest, thanks allanorton for starting this thread but come and try a Tasar before you get too worried. I'm sure you will feel a lot better afterwards and perhaps start thinking about the bigger issue of handicap and why we still use a system designed around the huge club dinghy fleets of the 70's.

I would never advise anyone to buy a Tasar to win in Handicap racing. We have been stuck with a penal rating for the last 15 years as other classes have moved on due to the nature of the PY returns system. When did you see a Tasar win or even place in the top ten of any of the major handicap events. One problem is that the best sailors in a lot of classes are rarely posting results in club handicap events therefore never show up in the returns. I would suggest 1050 would be a fair number if we matched sailors of comparable ability and equipment.

My National 12 has more sail area and is quicker on the water, as for modern Merlins, Fireballs Flying Fifteens.... The banter when I travel to open handicap events is usually that I have brought the wrong boat, yet at club level racing against sailors that do not attend World Championships or compete in the top ten in their national fleet we do rather well.

The new sails were introduced as a facelift, and are £150 a suit cheaper than the Dacrons. About a square foot of area has been added to the jib roach with a redistribution from middle to head in the mainsail. The corners of the sails are in the same positions as with the dacrons so there is no need to move sheeting positions.  The mast is still two piece aluminium and there are no plans for any future changes.

I really hope the new sails are quicker, so far we know they are more gust responsive than the old sails and look and feel great. In the first big comparison dacrons placed 1,2,3. oops. But there were a lot of excuses. Sailing fast is fun doing it in comfort with a good friend is fantastic.

Sailing in handicap races is about sailing for enjoyment. Only one boat will win. People sail Tasars because its so much fun with so little effort. Husbands and wives, girl and boyfriends, big children and small. All want to go fast but without the need to be great athletes and without the stress of a third sail. Both Tasar crew tend to be extremely good looking and have excellent taste. Its a niche market...

If any of you want to try a Tasar send me a mail or get in touch through the Tasar website.

Tim Knight

Tasar European President

Owner of various Tasars and a National 12

Have to agree with Chris about the Contender though carbon rigs have help them drop the odd kilo in the right place, Where are you sailing? Is 249 a Tasar?

The handicap question is never going to go away but are we looking at the right results. Does anyone else feel Olympic level Lasers and Finns are slow?  When in the UK they tend to sail on their own or with buddies rather than club race but the 'nearly' squad members are fast enough.  

Our new resident Tasar World Champion has only raced handicap a few times since coming back to the UK but he has not upset the local Merlin Fleet, yet... 

On the few occasions when the best sailors get together and sail against each other in their own boats, there is a clear indication of relative speeds. Compare this with the varied performance returns of club sailors on ponds, puddles and bits of tidal estuary. I know where I would prefer the data to be collected. what do you guys think or is a different thread.

A Tasar with new rig will be at Datchet next weekend for the try a boat event. Hope all the other classes will be showing up.

Tim Knight 363 and 2802

"Where are you sailing? Is 249 a Tasar"

New South Wales. The Tasar's a 700 series. I haven't sailed it for a long time unfortunately; was saving my energy for a major tilt at the worlds (used to be normally in the Linsley/Bretherton/Duglii/Ferret region of the fleet when I was a regular, but went through a time when I only raced once a year and dropped back) but major family issues got in the way.

I was going to flog the boat but then I took it out for the first time in yonks and realised just how great they are to sail. It's just a pity you need a regular crew because my logical crew owns her own cat and wants to sail that. The Tasar's been lent to a former state champ in Lasers and Tasars who hopefully will race it.

"Does anyone else feel Olympic level Lasers and Finns are slow?"

I must say, I reckon they're pretty slow in that while they're pretty quick for what they (ie a hiking singlehanded dinghy) that category of boat is just about the slowest form of sailing craft isn't it? Here in Sydney over the last few years we've had Schiedt, Ainslie, Blackburn etc and all the top Finn guys and they just can't hold the Tasar in most conditions, certainly not upwind or reaching in any breeze.

It doesn't mean the Laser isn't a great boat (I've never sailed the Finn) but it's just not in the same speed bracket as the Tasar most of the time. Of course that's no problem, if it's pure speed we're talking we all know that none of these classes is worth mentioning.

"Our new resident Tasar World Champion has only raced handicap a few times since coming back to the UK but he has not upset the local Merlin Fleet, yet..."

Yeah, the Whitstable Merlin guys tell me that even upwind in a breeze they can hold or beat the Tasars which is pretty impressive. But what UK sailor won the worlds? I thought the best were 8th and 9th?

We have been practicing in our Tasar this afternoon. The wind was light to a bit gusty (the most technical of you will understand these terms). It seems quite dificult to keep fast in varying wind conditions, keeping the crew buisy adjusting things and jumping about but pacing ourselves against a well sailed GP 14 we were much, much quicker upwind and easily sailed over them downhill even with no kite. An important consideration  when sailing Tasar inland, with no kite, is one of simplicity. In our old boats Lark, Jav, Laser2 we would have storming short spinnaker legs then drop the b****dy thing in the water at the next mark or some other disaster. Tasar is a fast boat and requires concentration but on a small pond you  can get on with sailing it fast on just 2 sails. So they can be the answer inland. And by the way it is the most compfy boat I ever sat in!

Best British worlds result I believe is Mark Barnes 5th in Australia in the late 80's early 90's. 

The new resident champion is Ben Nicholas who has now moved back to his home country. Very excited because he is moving down from London and maybe sailing at my club, Lymington, later in the season.

Given time we plan to fully train him in the art of talking with a plumy voice and eating with a knife and fork and teach him useful phrases like good morning, good afternoon, and a pint of beer barman... It may take a lot of work though, he has been well indoctrinated in his Darwin years. Even says he enjoyed it. Big question here is can we convert him in time for Thailand 2007.

Lasers and Finns?  not picking on them in particular but you must understand that most of our sailing is done in sub 15 knots in the UK and mainly sub 10 and non planing. We beat a whole host of boats in 20+ but PY is about average conditions not the occasional full on windy race. ( and then most of the other classes don't want to come out to play)  When checking weather for the Melbourne worlds we found AUS conditions are about 5 knots higher on average. (and then they set the start time to 2pm at Melbourne for the thermal 25-30 knot that we didnt know about)

Last night I got passed by a laser when my crew was sat to leward, then when the breeze came up 5 knots we sailed past him.

249 doesnt show on the AUS Member register so I was confused i thought it should be a canadian boat. Sounds like a good number to have. Is it a canadian with the wooden inwale?

The frostbite series started at RQYS this weekend - it must have been cold I even saw one person in a shortie rather than just rashie and board shorts...

 Well, that's it! It had the desired effect and I'm jealous......
hate ya sometimes you know...