New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: 'Fake/Training' Laser Sails
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

'Fake/Training' Laser Sails
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 3456>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
NickA View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 784 		Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 'Fake/Training' Laser Sails
    Posted: 18 Apr 06 at 1:13pm

Good thread Rick, about time we opened this one up!

Carsington tacitly allows "fake" sails for club racing ... and no-one has ever complained about my rooster one.  Its previous owner even used it in an open!  

If a performance advantage resulted I'm sure there would soon be a change; but the age of the hull (and its occupant) preclude anything being won so the question has never arisen!

On performance:

a) certainly not faster than a laser sail.

b) more solidly made than laser's - so ought to last better and well worth owning if only for practice sessions and blasting.

b) it's stiffer, so the cunningham is harder to pull on which makes de-powering a little harder.

As ever with SMODs - everyone worries about tiny kit changes that make next to no difference but no-one's bothered about the guy who buys a new sail every 3 months and a new hull every year.  And that surely DOES make a difference.  Obviously it's to the SMs advantage if poeple buy new kit, but NOT if they buy someone elses!  . 

PS: my laser 2 training sail IS faster than a real (hyde) laser 2 sail - but it's measurably bigger too!
Back to Top
jeffers View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 29 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 06 at 1:05pm
At Hunts we have just 'officially' voted on the use of 'training sails'. We decided that for Club racing using a training sail is fine but for open events an official Laser sail must be used.

We looked at many angles, one being making sailing affordable. There are many more people who will (and are willing to) pay the £250 (approx) for a training sail (Rooster appears to be the sail of choice but Hyde and Dolphin do make them as well).

They offer no advantage aside from some of them being made of a better quality cloth and as such have a longer competitive life than the 'official' sails. I had a Hyde one for 4 years while I sailed a Laser and it was still the correct shape (if a lot less crispy) when I passed it on to one of the junior members.

Regards,

Paul
Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74
Back to Top
m_liddell View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 27 May 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 583 		Post Options Post Options   Quote m_liddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 06 at 1:05pm

Without try to derail this thread, do these 'training' sails last longer? The official sails have a pathetically short life.
Back to Top
Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 03 Aug 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1599 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 06 at 12:53pm
They aren't "fake sails". They don't pretend to be what they are not. They are "training sails".
Back to Top
Norbert View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 351 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Norbert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 06 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by Chew my RS

We get around 25-30 lasers out on a Wednesday and the top eight positions or so are filled by the same usual suspects every week. These guys probably do at least one official Laser open a year, so I guess they will need a proper sail.



I guess if you're going to be winning on a regular basis in a fleet of 25 - 30 competitive lasers then you're going to have to do it with an official sail, if you're just there to make up the numbers and have an occasional stab at glory why not... for god's sake!
Back to Top
kasey3000 View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 06 Apr 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kasey3000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 06 at 11:35am

A few people used to use the Rooster replica's at my last sailing club...

They didn't seem any faster or slower in any wind conditions...seemed to work about the same as the real Laser sails.
49er 908
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 06 at 10:25am
There is nothing official at Whitefriars, but several people have raced and do race with fake sails. It is difficult to say whether they are slower than the real thing, but we have no reason to believe they are faster. I would say that so long as the sail is made to be cheaper than the real thing, we have no problem. If someone deliberately set out to make a faster sail, cost no option, then we would have to think again
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
elmo View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 31 May 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 31 		Post Options Post Options   Quote elmo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 06 at 9:59am

At my club the club owned lasers have (attractive neon) fake laser sails.

They seem to be considerably worse in performance than those with their own lasers, although it is hard to tell if that has to do with the difference in age of boats and the quality of sailor.

You'd have to be careful they were comparable, our "radial" sails are rumoured to be bigger than the real thing, and clearly cannot be true radial sails as they are not radially cut!
Back to Top
Pabs View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king


Joined: 05 Jan 05
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 177 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Pabs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 06 at 9:33am

Are club Combs S.C allows them. they dont seem to offer any better performance then a Hyde laser sail apart from on your wallet.

 

 
Back to Top
Chew my RS View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 05 Oct 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 790 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chew my RS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 06 at 9:23am

Good question.

I'm not sure whether anyone at my club (Chew Valley) has requested using a 'fake' laser sail before, but I have been considering doing so, so am interesed in any replies you get. We get around 25-30 lasers out on a Wednesday and the top eight positions or so are filled by the same usual suspects every week. These guys probably do at least one official Laser open a year, so I guess they will need a proper sail. The rest of us don't generally do any opens and aren't really competing at the front of the fleet, so (I would imagine) would welcome the opportunity to buy cheaper sails. I think its only right and fair to use a genuine Laser sail at official Laser events, but for club racing cheaper alternatives seem fair enough. After all, your club can create its own "class" for its purposes.

I guess it may be the sailors at he front of the fleet who take the most convincing that the 'fakes' should be allowed.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 3456>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy