Doublehander for 2 lightweights

Originally posted by Isis Originally posted by CurlyBen As for saying SMODs are expensive, I bought a twin wire, high performance boat with relatively low outgoings with a large suit of sails (inclusing brand new main, jib and kite) and a lot of other kit and spares for £1800. The 5k is a fantastic example of a smod that is cheep but for every example of a cheep smod, theres an equaly expensive one.

Sure, but the same is true of development classes - £10k for a second hand I14?

In the 5ks case the class appears to be making a great attempt at a revival at the moment and seems to be doing quite well for itself. Hovever this revival (from my outsiders perspective) seems to be based pretty heavily on how good value the boats are. There is unfortunately a reason why the boats are so cheep though, How many 5ks get built a year now?

They aren't being made anymore, I did hear Laser were looking to get rid of the moulds - but how many high performance boats do Laser build at all? I think there were 2 new 4000s last year, and don't remember seeing one on their stands at boat shows this year. They're just more interested in other market segments these days, which I think is a shame but is also slightly irrelevant.. There have been rumours of Vandercraft getting involved, as with the 3000. Whether there's any truth to them I have no idea. For what it's worth, I've heard of a few 5000s who want to do the Nats, probably about as many as the Cherub nats attract, but with the bonus(?!) of sharing them with the 4000s.

As for saying SMODs are just as bad in terms of needing lots of money thrown at them, I think most people would agree that a new sail will normally make less difference than a T foil rudder or upgrading to a new rule set.. Upgrading to a new rule set isnt exactly included in anual expenses. There was 8 years between the last cherub rule changes and these basicaly boil down to a new suit of sails for most boats. How many classes go 8 years without getting new sails anyway if you want to remain competative anyway?

It would be interesting to know whether over that 8 years which boat costs more to stay at the front of the fleet, I genuinely have no idea. I do know the 5000 can go for a very long time with the same main, the guy I took my main to be repaired to said my (training) main was in better condition than his race sail, and he posts good results.

Admitedly getting a T will make a difference but thats the entire point of development classes! developing things and using your head on shore as well as in the boat. I would put money on my new T (when I get round to it) costing less than laser charge for a new 5k rudder.

I don't need a new rudder - I've got 3 already, including a brand new one
In all honesty though there is a place for both, and I think it's fair to say that people have been a bit intolerant on both sides. I've enjoyed sailing a Cherub on occasion, but for what I'm looking to do, a SMOD suits my purposes better.


Edited by CurlyBen

Originally posted by phantom_iv [If it's possible to take 30kg out of and 80kg 3k, imagine how much you could take out of a 5000? Proportionally you should be able to get it down to 80kg - could be a very good boat with a few updates to the rig etc

Well lets think, lets lose say 120kg from the hull, put on a decent rig, now that we're not in rhinoceros territory we should lose that horrible turnup in the rocker aft, and we've got left - well a few ropes actually. At least with the 3000 it was starting with a hull shape (Laser 2) that was a better shape and probably a more advanced design in the first place (for all it was designed 10 years or more earlier...)

Seeing as they cast naff all money I'm sure the heaps are a good buy secondhand, but you'd really need to book a professional session with a man in a white coat if you were thinking about building new ones. I mean, grief, the ISAF trials decided that even the Boss was a better boat!

By the way the all up  weight of a 5000  is 182Kgs(if I remember correctly) who cares if thats heavy we just enjoy sailing them

Edited by les5269

What about Villan though, who's lost somewhere along the path

Given he sails an RS Vareo, their all-up weight is 120kg, and his motto is "Lower your expectations and the world becomes a better place", can we rank his three best options for a £1500 budget

Depending on what's sailed at his club I'd say: 1) Laser II, 2) Lark, =3) Fireball or stretch to a Laser 3000

(sorry Cherubs, but time on the water ranks higher for me than time in the garage - been there, seen it, done it and got the T-shirt with a Mk II Osprey 'project' that I never sailed)

As a second boat for high wind blasting in a large expanse of water, the Laser II sounds even more right for you.

Almost bomb-proof (if there had been build problems they would have emerged by now on an older boat), zero maintenance, underpowered (good for a light-weight crew in high winds), and you're low down in all the spray (which accentuates the feeling of speed)

The only vice is submarining into waves (lack of buoyancy in the bows), but learn to deal with that (well back on the trapeze) and it just adds to the fun (and improves your boat handling).