Whats that rumbling?

 It sounds like a herd of cherub forumites stampedeing to reccomend their boat!

Actually not a bad idea, fits your criteria (if you stick to the single string version), and can be picked up cheaply, espically if your handy with a bit of epoxy and some carbon twill.

Fireballs can be found at that price (espically if you like varnish) and have a very active circuit, you may have to grow into it slightly though...

if you're light I'd say go for a bottom dollar Laser 3000, then save up another £950 and kit it out with new North sails (larger, battened jib, same cloth as 29er)

the older traditional boats mentioned are going need cash and effort to get them competitive anyway

the 3000 is the best choice here to try single handed trapezing too ... a must

see the headlines at http://www.3000class.org.uk - www.3000class.org.uk

Try a Buzz, a much under rated boat and probably within budget.

Sorry, but you have actually just described a '97 rules Cherub. Single wire, assymetric kite, centre main, etc.

120kg so about 18-19stone. That is spot on for a Cherub. you will fly!

£1500 would get you a very nice and well sorted boat, if you can find one. Boats in this price range are under huge demand ATM.

Sailing a '97 rules boat isn't going to leave you behind the rest of the fleet. The majority of the boats still race under '97 rules, so there will be loads of competition for you.

As you become more confident you may want to upgrade to twin-trapeze. This is simply a case of attaching another trapeze line to the mast. Or even eventually upgrading to bigger sails. But that's completely up to you.

How old are you? If your older than about 12 you will feel very left out in the 29er fleet!

The 405's a bit of a kid's boat really - not much power and surprisingly expensive.

As for the old Buzz, 29er, laser 3k etc debate...

29er - best boat by a margin but most expensive, wobbly and most of the competition is against well funded, super fit teenagers and they're usually around £4k.

Buzz - bit big but stable; not seen one for < £2k.

3k - bit small and maybe under powered, but the only one that's truly singlehandable.  But still £2k - £5k.

or ... if you're skint....

Laser 2 - cheap as chips, maintenance free, lasts forever, a blast on a beam reach in a blow and if you can handle a spinny with a pole, the "regatta" model feels remarkably quick downwind too (partly due to the bow spray!).

Fireball - indeed.  Been here forever, never seems to die. But nice new ones are pricey and old wooden ones need lots of TLC.

Old cherub - if you want to spend more time in the garage and boat park than on the water, but look really, really cool doing it .....

If you don't know what your talking about then it's probably best to keep it shut, because that's rubbish!

Admittidley we do spend alot of time working on our boats in the garage, but thats through choice, not neccesity.

A crap excuse used by crap sailors! Calculations have shown it costs me alot less to sail a Cherub than a one design.

Rubbish!

Cherub's will easily pace a 29er. And will also loose alot less value, as a 10yr old Cherub will have lost all the value it's ever going to already.

i think u cherub boys are talking sh*t i just dont know how u can make a competative boat for £1500 that is crazy  u would have to know alot of people or just be very good at stealing. 

well u can get a 4k for just under 2000 and it is fully competative.  sails cost alot in any class but they are always going to be cheaper in a devolpment class cos the sailmakers have some compertion unlike laser who dont.

Firstly, you don't have to make a compeitive boat for £1500, you can buy one.

Secondly, it has nothing to do with knowing people or stealing, it's called sailing a class which isn't controlled by a manufacturer.

there are the occassional one, have a look on http://www.bu22.co.uk - www.bu22.co.uk on the message board.

Originally posted by carshalton fc i think u cherub boys are talking sh*t i just dont know how u can make a competative boat for £1500 that is crazy  u would have to know alot of people or just be very good at stealing.

If youd like me to run through my project costs so far then drop me a PM.
However, if you do that you might be forced to accept that development classes are just not as expensive as you keep trying to mindlessly claim which would be a shame for your egos sake.

Have you actually sailed a 5000 ? i owned one for 8 years and loved almost every sail !it's a heavy boat yes, SO? it's still one of the quickest two man boats you can buy second hand.It's virtually indestructable and the oldest boats are still as quick as the newest .They don't cost lots of money to maintain as long as you look after it.

I have beaten 49ers on the water in the right winds with it too.So the hull shape can't be that bad !

Some of our best sailers sailed them competitively do you think they thought they were rubbish boats?(I don't think so myself !)

Personally if the ones at my club sailed them more regulary I wouldn't have sold mine,because no matter what people think unless you have tried them you don't know how good they are !

Oh by the way I've also sailed the Boss and that is rubbish!

By the way the all up  weight of a 5000  is 182Kgs(if I remember correctly) who cares if thats heavy we just enjoy sailing them

Hmm losing 120kg from a 109kg hull? That's a trick I didn't know was around  I haven't had the opportunity to sail mine very much yet unfortunately but when I have I've really enjoyed sailing her.

And with the amount of debate about which classes should be in the Olympics I didn't know the ISAF decisions represent every sailor. They may not be for everyone but no boat is..

What about Villan though, who's lost somewhere along the path

Given he sails an RS Vareo, their all-up weight is 120kg, and his motto is "Lower your expectations and the world becomes a better place", can we rank his three best options for a £1500 budget

Depending on what's sailed at his club I'd say: 1) Laser II, 2) Lark, =3) Fireball or stretch to a Laser 3000

(sorry Cherubs, but time on the water ranks higher for me than time in the garage - been there, seen it, done it and got the T-shirt with a Mk II Osprey 'project' that I never sailed)

As a second boat for high wind blasting in a large expanse of water, the Laser II sounds even more right for you.

Almost bomb-proof (if there had been build problems they would have emerged by now on an older boat), zero maintenance, underpowered (good for a light-weight crew in high winds), and you're low down in all the spray (which accentuates the feeling of speed)

The only vice is submarining into waves (lack of buoyancy in the bows), but learn to deal with that (well back on the trapeze) and it just adds to the fun (and improves your boat handling).

If you want a go in a Cherub, there will be loads of us at Weston on Friday, until Monday evening. PM me if you would like me to arrange something. If your free for the whole event i know someone who's looking for a crew. Hoppy, are you following this?

Hey strawberry.  Don't get me wrong.  I love cherubs, I crave one, they're the ultimate expression of dinghy sailing joy.....

.... but I do note your web site has 2 pics of dangerous s on the water, 2 on the beach and 3 in the garage!!!!!!

Only kidding.  Nice boat. Enjoy. Wish I had the dedication.

Do you think maybe, just maybe, this could be due to the fact it's alot easier to take a picture of my boat when in it's standing still? I've tried sailing my boat, and being far away enough to take photos al at once, and trust me, it doesn't work. So how about you stop being an arroagant p***k and add something constructive to the discussion. (only kidding )

Well no sorry, I don't take the whole world jumping at every opportunity to slate my hard earned pride and joy as humerous or nice!

Talking of boats not being in the water, how many times have you got your 600 wet since you bought it?

I also saw you had loadsa offers for your mast on ebay. Quality bit of kit....

Now back in your corner son, and think about what you've done!

hmmm.....I'm keeping out of the cherub argument!

but back to the original thread.....

If you weigh about 120kg....I would highly consider a laser4000.

You would just be on the weight chart, and I know that you can buy them for around £1600 if you get an older one...but the older ones are still as quick if they are in good condition....4015 is still one of the quickest!!!

They have a good circuit, friendly sailors(who don't argue about petty little things), great py for club racing.... all round it's a very good boat, ok it isn't the lighest/fastest boat in the world....py of 908....but at least you can sail it in pretty much all wind conditions!

The laser5000 is also a great boat, I've never sailed one - but they look pretty cool on the water....and you can pick them up extremely cheap...with tons and tons of spares!

If you're anywhere near Grafham SC....we're having a fun day on May 6th to celebrate the clubs 40th bday, some club memebers are gonna be giving test sails on their boats.....why don't you pop up and we'll see if we can get you a go on several different boats!

These L4ks have gotten seriously good value. 

Looks like competition from the RS800 has knocked their price right down and £2500 will get a whole working one - which is as cheap or cheaper than the L3k!

But £750?? I paid more than that for a shot laser 1.  Does it float dyouthink?

If it is an older hull, with original sails or even just one suit of sails.....it prob could sell for that much.... Or if the person who is selling it doesn't understand laser4000 prices?

Originally posted by Isis I agree, no way smods could ever be that good value.

there's good value and there is stolen.

doesn't Noble Marine have a stolen boats site, could be worth reporting to them

the 2000 class spotted a L2K on e-Bay without sails or rudder, got suspicious, contacted the seller for the sail number, checked their records and rang the owner (who was a member), who only then found it missing from his lock-up

made for one very unhappy Scouser

In original post, you mentioned a 405. A mate of mine just bought one from Plas Menai. There was another there still for sale. They wanted £500 for them - the one he took was the best but he says both were good value and hadn't been sailed all that much. At that price it maybe worth a look - as long as you're aware of how the class is doing since it's no longer an RYA youth class.

Villan,

There is an ISO in the Y&Y classifieds for £700.  Comes with a combi, cover and new kite.  Sounds like an absolute bargin!

don't you dare say that!!! i race my 97' rules cherub on a 36 acre lake its hard work but its very good for boat handling skills, the cheub is a very manuoverable boat so you have no excuses!!

i think what villen is trying to say is that he doesnt want to ping off the sides when it is windy, 37acher lake that is tini!! amost as small as aquasports.

have you considered the scorpion? its a 14ft, 2 man hiking boat with a highly competitive fleet.

it uses a symetrical spinnacker, so some skills required!

you can pick up a reasonable older boat for £1500, look for the 1860's upwards turner boats. they are the first of the new hull shapes.

There is a highly active fleet, with a well attended national championship. Well known as a social fleet.

Make sure you can re-attach for skiff sailing purposes!