Dinghies VS Cats

"a lot of people leave dinghys for good once they have raced the high proformance cats."

Is that what happens in the UK? Doesn't seem to happen much here in Oz.....our cat fleets seem to be mainly long-term cat sailors.

Supposing your not talking super quick - I've finished in podium positions both in Toppers and 29ers at large events. I would of said Simon fits in the catagory pretty well.

In the quicker boats there are less tactical decisions to be made as you can't always afford to tack every 20 seconds because of the distance lost but as you're going so fast you have to make dececions at a similar rate. Also when its comes to making the decisions you have to be alot more proactive to what's going on around the race course or you can lose huge distances. I like both slow boats and quick, but I suppose it's just personal preference and everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Don't really see two hulls bodged together my thing though!

 

It seems to me that many aspects of sail trim are MORE prominent in cats than they are in dinghies; the feel you need to develop for getting the trim right is more subtle in the cat as there are fewer of the normal cues we use in dinghies (ie the cat doesn't seem to "bind up" etc) but if you get it wrong and don't notice, you lose a lot more speed in the cat than you do in the dinghy.

Downhill the higher-aspect rigs seem to break many of the "rules" and again it takes plenty of skill to learn how to trim them; perhaps more than in dinghies where just following the tufts is effective and simple much of the time.

An industry pro who is a former National Finn champ (and therefore no idiot when it comes to tuning) and cat veteran said a while ago that he expects to take 3 years to learn how to tune his Taipan (F16 type) so he can keep up with the best (who can finish top 10 in F18 worlds).  That's a good indication of the tuning knowledge cats seem to require and it's without the same sort of feedback dinghy rigs give IMHO.

That feel for working out top speed from very subtle hints seems to be a real talent that cats develop, and it's something I wish I had. Then again, other things (ie gust response via sheeting) aren't as important as in dinghies as far as I can see.

On the tactical side.....while it may be true that only people who have sailed in the top 1/2 of a hot cat fleet can know what it's like to sail a cat, surely the same applies to slow boats.

IE if you say slow-boat sailors don't know what cat sailing demands tactically unless they've been in the front part of a hot nationals cat fleet, it you must also admit that fast-boat sailors may be ignorant of what (say) Laser or Enterprise sailing demands tactically - unless the fast sailors have been in the front half of a Laser or Ent fleet.

The way that really hot skiff and cat sailors fail to really show out in Lasers etc seems to indicate that there may be something that fast boats don't teach you as well - just as there are some things that slow boats don't teach you as well as fast boats do.

Out of interest, how many people on either side of the debate have finished top 1/2 nationally in both fast and slow boats?

If the fast-boat guys can't show some serious slow-boat cred, perhaps they are a bit deficient in their slow-boat knowledge. Can't have it both ways - if slow-boaters have to prove their fast-boat results to be allowed to talk about cats, the fast-boat guys should prove their slow-boat results before they can be allowed to talk about slow boats.

It's also hard when people demand that others have sailed in a "hot" class.....don't we all define a "hot" class as "my class and others like it"...

PS why does the "fast boats are less tactical" idea hit such a sore nerve with some people? I'm damn sure the faster craft I sail are less tactical than the slower ones I sail.....so who cares? OK, so in one class success may be made up by boathandling 35%, tactics 30%, tune 30%, fitness 5%. In another, success may be boathandling 20%, tune 10%, tactics 50% and fitness 20%.....doesn't mean one class is better than the other, just different.



Edited by Chris 249

The club around the headland from ours (Pentewan) is a cat club, where in the past they have held various national champs for cat classes, but now seem to be struggling for members. every year we have a joint regatta racing with the cats, and yes, they do go faster than dinghies, but they don't appeal to me. they come past very quickly on some points of sail, but always seem to be sailing with the main and jib pinned in on all points of sail, sometimes with the kite, the aspects of sail trimming, balance/trim, tuning etc. don't seem as prominent.  It is very different to dinghy sailing, as is windsurfing, so doesn't appeal, so as in my first post, I would rather do something else than race/sail cats, this is my opinion which is what forums are about.  Sorry if you don't like it, and no Simon, I'm not in the market for an i17, just had a look at the add, the gps plot seems impressive!

Edited by allanorton

Originally posted by BnS who likes to stir it a bit, for the sake of it, Originally posted by I'm losing the thread who's quoting who there!!! Originally posted by Scooby_simon Originally posted by allanorton Originally posted by Scooby_simon Originally posted by allanorton Originally posted by Tornado_ALIVE Originally posted by allanorton Cats look depressing to sail, reaching around everywhere with main pulled in tight.  I would sooner give up sailing than sail a cat, just my opinion. Sorry mate, but this is a perfect example of a totaly uneducated comment. And what basis are you making this comment..... all right mate keep your hair on!!! like i said, just my opinion, if you don't like other people's opinions, don't read forums! Anyway if cats are so good how come no-ones bought yours after its been for sale for 14months? get back on the multi hull section where i don't have to look at you - just so depressing   allanorton, Ohhh Bitchy.  Cannot handle a little accurate information!  Cats are different and 100% fun.  Grow up or go away. keep your hair on, just my opinion, like I said!  if you don't like to read other peoples opinions, don't go on forums! Had many viewers for your i17 in the last 14 months? I like to read informed opinions. As for the boat, Plenty of time wasters.  Wanna buy it?  You've obviously been watching it carefully !   Interesting to note you edited out the "get back on the multi hull section where i don't have to look at you - just so depressing" from the post above before I got to reply.

Blimey! That's a lot of hair to keep on!!
Is that a sailing remake of "Gorillas in the mist"?

(Calm down, boys... It's only sailing after all!)