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rules query

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mike ellis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: rules query
    Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 4:14pm
i thought if you are on starboard coming into a mark it doesn't matter if there is anyone on port inside you because they are on port so they have no rights. don't the rules say if there is confusion remove the mark from the situation. so in your case jeffers i cant see why starboard was penalized.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 5:27pm

Originally posted by mike ellis

i thought if you are on starboard coming into a mark it doesn't matter if there is anyone on port inside you because they are on port so they have no rights. don't the rules say if there is confusion remove the mark from the situation. so in your case jeffers i cant see why starboard was penalized.

At 2 boatlengths on a staboard rounding, port boat has rights to water.

So many people do not know this it is scary.  This is one reason what these courses are not used much if possible.

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mike ellis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 5:29pm
but the rules tell you to remove the mark if your confused.
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mike ellis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 5:38pm

rule 18.1 ...however this rule does not apply

b: while boats are on opposite tacks....

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Garry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Garry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 6:15pm
You need to quote the whole exception to rule 18... While boats are on opposite tacks, either on a beat to windward or when the proper course for one of them but not both is to tack to round or pass the mark.

In this situation one boat is required to gybe to round the mark.

It is also unfortunate that in the Ent / Laser example the protest committee didn't clarify the situation - this would be one to appeal (depending, of course, on the facts found.



Edited by Garry
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mike ellis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 6:23pm
yes but the boats are on oppositetacks so starboard has right of way under rule 10 doesnt he?
600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it.
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Harry44981! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Harry44981! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 6:23pm

Mike, on a starboard rounding leward mark (never used a t championships unless it is part of a gate), a port boat is intitled to 'room', when overlapped at the 2 boatlength circle with a starboard boat.

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Garry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Garry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 6:51pm
It doesn't matter whether its a port or starboard rounding rule 18 gives the inside boat room, regardless of tack. The only exception (for opposite tacks, overlapped at 2 boat lengths) is a starboard rounding of the windward mark when the rules are considered as if the mark wasn't there.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 06 at 9:50am
Hence why on a Starboard rounding of a windaward mark you can stuff a boat on Starboard if you are on port. Just Ensure you will keep clear if your course does not change and don't let the starboard boat tack in your water (if they do they should do a 720).

They way to counter if you are on starboard is to slow up and ensure that you force the port boat to tack off, then you are free to tack.

It is scary how many people do not know these relatively simple things. We are better now through a series of informative articles where some of these situations have been analysed by our rules guru and printed in the quarterly newsletter.

He does detail what each boat could (or should) have done to gain the most or minimise the loss.

The golden rule is always try and keep out the way, if you end up fighting with another boat for the same piece of water you are only going to slow each other down and maybe let a lot of people through.

Had this at a leeward mark at the first SGP, we were coming in just behind a huge group, I called for the helm to slow up...we did, huge gap appeared as everyone had a wide exit and up we popped, made about 10 places in 1 rounding.

Just my 2p....
Paul
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 06 at 9:57am
Originally posted by mike ellis

i thought if you are on starboard coming into a mark it doesn't matter if there is anyone on port inside you because they are on port so they have no rights. don't the rules say if there is confusion remove the mark from the situation. so in your case jeffers i cant see why starboard was penalized.


The right to water is established then the closest boat reaches the 'zone' (commonly defined as 2 boatlengths of the closest boat). It does not matter if the inside boat is a mile away, in theory they are still entitled to water (of course they would not be infringed by the other boat rounding up).

The way to be sure at a leeward mark is to be inside boat (it does not matter if it is a port or starboard rounding) and on starboard.

You must remember though that is you are the outside boar and the inside boat needs to gybe you must give them room for a 'seamanlike' rounding (ie enough room for a normal rounding given the conditions and amount of sail handling required). If they gybe and their boom hits you in theory you are in the wrong unless you can prove they did not make a seamanlike rounding.

What I tend to do is give enough room and make a smart rounding and hopefully reach off underneath them and gain clear wind.
Paul
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