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limey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote limey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: rules query
    Posted: 27 Mar 06 at 1:11pm
 Two boats sailing dead downwind on the rhumb line.The boats are on opposite tacks and parallel with each other, but no more than a booms length between them.. The boat on starboard tack then very gradually sails a bit higher focing the port tack boat to sail by the lee . due to the change in angle the port tack boat must gybe (either inadvertently or intentionally), but due to the proximity of the boats there is no way that he can do so without his boom fouling the starboard tack boat. and naturally when the gybe occurrs contact is made. Who is in the right ???
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 06 at 1:18pm

I would say the starboard boat is in the right. The port boat should anticipate this situation aring and take avoiding action and gybe early.

If they hold on to long then they have not avoided the collision.

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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 06 at 1:26pm
Port was required to keep clear. As soon as Port got in a position where he/she could not gybe without contacting Starboard she/he was failing to keep clear and was breaking the rules. Port should have said something on the lines of "I can't gybe without touching you: bear away and I'll do my turns" What Port should have done was gybe before it got to that point.


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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 06 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by JimC

Port was required to keep clear. As soon as Port got in a position where he/she could not gybe without contacting Starboard she/he was failing to keep clear and was breaking the rules. Port should have said something on the lines of "I can't gybe without touching you: bear away and I'll do my turns" What Port should have done was gybe before it got to that point.


I agree as long as the course by the starboard boat was gradual and not sudden.

I know you do not have to call but were I the starboard boat I would be letting the person on port know that they have to keep clear.

Saves any hassle or misconception and eliminates the oh I didnt realise you were there argument.

It does sound like a simple port starboard argument to me though.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tack'ho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 06 at 2:53pm
Option B for the port tack boat would be to slow down dramatically to make space.
I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Garry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 06 at 5:14pm
If you get in this situation you really need to gybe as soon as practicable after you reach two boat lengths from the starboard boat. Since the overlap is not established from astern the starboard boat can't luff as they please. This assumes you are both heading for the same mark.

Once you get a boom's length from the next boat you're not really keeping clear anymore
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mike ellis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 06 at 5:22pm
if starboard didnt tell the port boat he was there and needed to keep clear before luffing isnt it his problem because he isnt given port room. but otherwise port starboard incident.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 06 at 6:00pm

Originally posted by mike ellis

if starboard didnt tell the port boat he was there

"Sorry I didn't see you mate" isn't an excuse. Port tack need to keep a lookout.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Garry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 06 at 6:00pm
There is nothing in the rules that says you have to tell the give way boat what you're doing. you do have to give them the opportunity to keep clear, but unless the port boat is suddenly transported into that position, they've had plenty of opportunity to keep clear. The important thing is that the starboard boat doesn't alter course in such a way as to prevent the port boat keeping clear. It would be very difficult for the port boat to demonstrate she was keeping clear once she got to a position where a gybe would cause contact. In my view the protest committee would consider how she got in that position in any protest. providing the starboard boat was generally steering a reasonable course to the next mark it would be a clear infringement.

ISAF definition:

Keep Clear One boat keeps clear of another if the other can sail her course with no need to take avoiding action and, when the boats are overlapped on the same tack, if the leeward boat can change course in both directions without immediately making contact with the windward boat.
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mike ellis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 06 at 6:04pm
ill shut up
600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it.
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