RS500 ...

Originally posted by Pondling Back to the 500 topic.. does anyone else think that the 500 looks like a large feva thats been pushed into a skiff shape and sold with bigger sails? i dont mean this offensively or anthing

Hmmmmm.

After looking at the very different shape of a 12' skiff, a Bethwaite 18, a Bieker Int 14, a Wedge 14, the old Prime Mk1 18, a Murray 12, etc etc etc I'm damned if I can find a "skiff shape"!

They can be round bilged, multi chined, inverted chined, round bilge into hard chine, or hard chined.

They can be flat bottomed, vee bottomed, or anything in between.

They can be concave at the stern, and they can be deeply veed.

They can have lots of flare, very little flare, no flare, or even reverse flare.

They've had 30' wings and no wings, and 2' wings, and sliding wings, and solid wings.....

They've had hydrofoils, and canard centreboards, and foil rudders, and slotted rudders......

They can have vertical stems, raked stems....

If you can find a "skiff shape" in all that lot, you're doing damn well!

Originally posted by Chris Noble very very good point there chris 249

I totally agree, a skiff is defined in english dictionaries as "a small open boat", any sailing dinghy, rowing boat etc. could be called a skiff!!!

Edited by allanorton

Originally posted by allanorton Originally posted by Chris Noble very very good point there chris 249 I totally agree, a skiff is defined in english dictionaries as "a small open boat", any sailing dinghy, rowing boat etc. could be called a skiff!!!

OK, so we will agree to use only the standard dictionary definition for all things related to sailing.........

Whoops, that means a dinghy is
"1. A small open boat carried as a tender, lifeboat, or pleasure craft on a larger boat.


Edited by Chris 249

Originally posted by Chris 249 Originally posted by allanorton Originally posted by Chris Noble very very good point there chris 249 I totally agree, a skiff is defined in english dictionaries as "a small open boat", any sailing dinghy, rowing boat etc. could be called a skiff!!! OK, so we will agree to use only the standard dictionary definition for all things related to sailing......... Whoops, that means a dinghy is "1. A small open boat carried as a tender, lifeboat, or pleasure craft on a larger boat. 2. A small rowboat. 3. An inflatable rubber life raft." Wow......the Olympic dinghy events are sailed in rowboats or inflatable rafts? No wonder TV viewing figures are down. What are all those people who say they sail dinghies thinking of - bloody idiots don't know that FDs, 505s, Merlin and Lasers aren't dinghies since they don't fit the definition. Ok all you Merlin owners, get cracking to fit rowlocks or you are no longer dinghy sailors! Oh well, no more dinghy sailing for me. I'll have to sail my International Canoe - but ohmigod what's this - I check in the dictionary and it turns out that an International Canoe is not what the class has thought for 100+years; in fact it's  something "concerning or belonging to all or at least two or more nations; "international affairs"; "an international agreement"; "international waters" AND a "small and light boat; pointed at both ends; propelled with a paddle". Now I know why I lost the nationals - I didn't have an international agreement and a paddle like the dictionary said an International Canoe must have. Oh well, I also have a Laser Radial - but since the dictionary is law, it turns out that it's not a boat but a light beam that is "radiating from or converging to a common center."  Oh dear, how are they going to race a light beam in the next Olympics? And so, since the dictionary has proven that my IC and my Laser are not what the sailing world thought they were for many years, I am forced to sadly go down to my scruffy old yacht. But wait! Fear and trembling! I see that the dictionary (our invaluable friend) does not define a "Spencer Serendipity 28 half tonner" as my trusty friend of many a sail, but an item of clothing crossed with good luck and some weight! Hell, my crew and I have been doing overnight races on a piece of womens clothing! That's it - my sailing days have ended. Or maybe - just maybe - the guys who compile general-purpose dictionaries are not the leading experts on the finer points of sailing terminology?

You've just proved my point, we are all skiff sailors in the UK, thanks for clearing that up!!!

PS, next look up "common noun" & "proper noun", this may help you get a better grasp of the use of the english language!

Edited by allanorton

WARNING - YOU ARE ENTERING AN ANORAK ZONE!

Allan, actually I think understand the difference between proper and common nouns at least as well as you seem to understand sailing history!

What you seem to have missed is that the term (as used in this context) COMES from classes where the word "skiff" forms part of a proper noun. In this context, it surely WAS part of a proper noun - just like "Rocket" is part of the proper noun for Merlin Rockets, as well as the common noun for something that goes bang in the sky. If we thought Merlin Rockets were cool so we started to call anything vaguely like them "rockets", the MR guys would be annoyed - so why do it so the guys from the skiff classes?

It's similar to the way we have 6,8 and 12 Metre boats, but we don't just call Solent Sunbeams "metre boats" because they too are long, low and skinny.

And no, I'm not trying to say that the term "skiff" can't be used for 49ers, RS800s etc. Of course ours is a living language. All I'm trying to say is that it DOES have a meaning that is something more than "small open boat". The term "skiff" in this context used to have a meaning that was as specific as "metre boat", and it seems a bit silly to turn it into another bit of weasel-worded marketing bull.

PS - try finding a definition of blade jibs, wings, racks, assymetric spinnakers, flex-tip rigs, etc in a dictionary......every specialist field, whether sport or profession or whatever, has accepted definitions that aren't found in a dictionary.

Anyway, no more from me 'cause I'm hijacking a thread yet again. Sorry.











Edited by Chris 249