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Bumble View Drop Down
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Posts: 302 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bumble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Controversial Topic of the Week
    Posted: 08 Feb 06 at 3:36pm
I don't think that was entirely clear in your post, but who cares.......... I think you boys need to have a big hug and make up. 700's, MPS's - its all just fun in boats right.
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Ian29937 View Drop Down
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Posts: 409 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian29937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 06 at 11:41am

We were talking specifically 700's there as you are well aware, and I stand by what I said in both threads. 

Ian
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 06 at 9:22am
Originally posted by Ian29937

In an ideal world yes I agree, but here on Earth this has never been the case for all the reasons we've mentioned before.  The sail number has only ever been a rough indicator and we shouldn't waste any time or energy trying to make it anything else. 

Should the older classes re-issue those numbers which never got built to give a true representation of actual growth.  What a lot of work which could be better channeled to growing the sport.

Should the classes go back and re-issue those blocks of numbers which issued but not produced when the local associations didn't grow as expected.  They obviously decided not to bother which is fine by me..

Did RS commit a mortal sin if they jumped a few numbers from 490 because orders had stopped while their customers were asking for RS300 number 500?  No, they are just a load of sailors trying to keep their customers happy, run a business and grow a fleet. I'm equally aware that they have on accasion issued duplicate numbers in error which obviously has the opposite effect.

If you accept that the numbers are a rough guide only this is all pretty academic really.

Ian

Ian, I am surprised you are so relaxed about this given the below statement from a previous thread ...

Originally posted by Ian29937

Oh, and sorry mate, there are no gaps in the sail numbers.

http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1 099&KW=1241&PN=0&TPN=4

Rick
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Posts: 545 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rob.e Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 06 at 7:57pm

I have to say, I'd been out of sailing for a while, and thought there would be over 300 RS 300's when I bought mine. I was a bit disappointed when I found the truth!

Still grew to love it tho'
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Posts: 750 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Hector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 06 at 2:05pm

In some classes, a batch is sent off to Minorca, Neilson, Mark Warner or wherever. They of course never figure in open results. Doubt this applies to the missing 300s though.

Agree with Ian that there's little point worrying about it although a little more transparency might be useful for potential buyers who don't know about the first 50 or 4000 or whatever.
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Posts: 34 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ed490 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 06 at 1:55pm
Just about the 300s - I owned 490 from new (hence my name!), I bought her in jan/feb 2003, I think she was one of a batch of 5, I don't know their numbers but I guess that they may also fill in some of the gaps.
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Posts: 409 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian29937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 06 at 1:28pm

In an ideal world yes I agree, but here on Earth this has never been the case for all the reasons we've mentioned before.  The sail number has only ever been a rough indicator and we shouldn't waste any time or energy trying to make it anything else. 

Should the older classes re-issue those numbers which never got built to give a true representation of actual growth.  What a lot of work which could be better channeled to growing the sport.

Should the classes go back and re-issue those blocks of numbers which issued but not produced when the local associations didn't grow as expected.  They obviously decided not to bother which is fine by me..

Did RS commit a mortal sin if they jumped a few numbers from 490 because orders had stopped while their customers were asking for RS300 number 500?  No, they are just a load of sailors trying to keep their customers happy, run a business and grow a fleet. I'm equally aware that they have on accasion issued duplicate numbers in error which obviously has the opposite effect.

If you accept that the numbers are a rough guide only this is all pretty academic really.

Ian
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 06 at 11:33am
Originally posted by Ian29937

There have always been gaps and anomolies. 

  • I believe the Fireball's used to allocate blocks of numbers to the National associations which meant that a brand new boat in the UK could have a very different number to a new boat in any other country.  I used to wonder why the Australians always came over to the Worlds with such old boats.
  • There were always numbers issued to home builders which never got built.
  • I wasn't aware the 29er 49er and MPS's skipped the first 50 numbers until Rick explained it to me on here.
  • It was always obvious to me that the L4000 numbers started at 4000, the RS200's at 200 but if you didn't know that fact....

The sail number is at best an indicator of growth.

Ian

Ian,

Agreed there will always be some anomolies and gaps for the reasons correctly pointed out above and many SMOD's don't start at 1 but beyond that I believe people read the sail number as a resonable indicator of the number of boats built - give or take a few and taking into account any declared starting offset; eg; 50 for the 29er, 49er & MPS, 4000 for the Laser 4000, 300 for the RS300 and so on ...

Beyond that I am sure people expect numbers to be issued sequentically with no gaps. The numbers may appear at different times due to boats being in stock in different places at different times or built at different rates in different countries; but ultimatly the numbers should arrive sequentially bar the odd boat that never got finished etc etc ... if that is not the case then the sail number can't be considered and indicator for growth at all ...

Rick

 



Edited by Guest#260
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Ian29937 View Drop Down
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Posts: 409 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian29937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 06 at 9:57am

There have always been gaps and anomolies. 

  • I believe the Fireball's used to allocate blocks of numbers to the National associations which meant that a brand new boat in the UK could have a very different number to a new boat in any other country.  I used to wonder why the Australians always came over to the Worlds with such old boats.
  • There were always numbers issued to home builders which never got built.
  • I wasn't aware the 29er 49er and MPS's skipped the first 50 numbers until Rick explained it to me on here.
  • It was always obvious to me that the L4000 numbers started at 4000, the RS200's at 200 but if you didn't know that fact....

The sail number is at best an indicator of growth.

Ian
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 06 at 9:21am

On this page;

http://www.lasersailing.com/disp/uk/laser/why-laser

Laser state; "There are now over 181,000 Lasers, sailing in over 120 countries worldwide."

So there are no gaps in the Laser numbers.

All classes, as far as I know, present the sail number to represent the number of boats build be it national or internationl (give or take a few).

Rick
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