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    Posted: 30 Jan 06 at 10:32pm
Do I smell an MPS worlds coming on then???
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 06 at 9:43pm
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

http://www.sailing.org/regulations/2006_partIV.pdf rule 18 and also http://www.sailing.org/regulations/2006_partV.PDF 

Cheers; I believe these must have change at the last November meeting.

Rick

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 06 at 7:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 06 at 6:48pm
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Originally posted by Chew my RS

Do we still have 'national' classes in the same way there are 'international' ones.  If a class can only hold a 'world championship' if it is 'international', can only 'national' classes hold 'national' championships.

Yes there are "national" classes but no, that is not what it means. AFAIK there hasn't been a new "national" class in decades. "National" means UK-wide, as opposed to one of what used to be a large number of local classes.

You don't have to be an International class to have a Worlds either. An ISAF-recognised class can do so and the criteria are significantly lower.

Stefan - that was not my understanding; do you have the details?

Rick

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 06 at 6:40pm

Originally posted by Chew my RS

Do we still have 'national' classes in the same way there are 'international' ones.  If a class can only hold a 'world championship' if it is 'international', can only 'national' classes hold 'national' championships.

Yes there are "national" classes but no, that is not what it means. AFAIK there hasn't been a new "national" class in decades. "National" means UK-wide, as opposed to one of what used to be a large number of local classes.

You don't have to be an International class to have a Worlds either. An ISAF-recognised class can do so and the criteria are significantly lower.

 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Blobby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 06 at 6:01pm

The 29er thing is not actually that weird - just a flow down from the 49ers where the system is designed to mimic Formula 1 for ease of TV coverage (and there is a televised 49er grand prix circuit around asia these days).

It does seem though that the ISAF plaque numbers on the 29er are issued in batches to each builder - the plaque numbers of the latest boats in the UK are around 1050 but if you buy a boat in Aus it will be around 950...

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chew my RS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 06 at 2:05pm

But the implication is that more boats have been sold than is actually the case.  I agree with Rick, most people do believe that sail numbers indicate numers sold (even if not accurately).  As most people like to buy boats that have achieved some kind of critical mass (to ensure a bit of competition, re-sale potential and the comfort of a warantee from a secure anbuilder) this misleading information will affect their sales.  Granted it may not be the builders that perpetuate the myth that sail numbers equals boats sold, but the system is open to abuse, isn't it?

As for that 29er thing, that's just bizarre.

Do we still have 'national' classes in the same way there are 'international' ones.  If a class can only hold a 'world championship' if it is 'international', can only 'national' classes hold 'national' championships.  This might give the RYA some clout over classes.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 06 at 1:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 06 at 1:53pm

We are currently having this discussion on the Contender email forum.

Currently our sail number is different from the plaque number with the numbered plaque bought by the builder from the RYA before the boat is built (and sometimes even planned) but the sail number issued upon successful measurment.

We also have a (IMHO) stupid system where each county has it's own numbers which means that some of you no doubt think that only 700 Contenders have been built in the last 30 years whereas it's actually closer to 2500 worldwide. Also at the last UK worlds I had to argue against penalisation because GER506 had been caught pumping but they thought they'd penalise GBR506 (my number then)! One of the umpires was German and the other French but I'm sure that has no relevance.

One thing has been shown though - the Plaque numbers do not give a good indication of age unless you list when each numbered boat was measured as people like Rondar used to buy a quantity of plaques and have them 'in stock' (sometimes for years) or sell them to other builders, or never use them. So the age of a boat cannot be worked out from number alone.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Black no sugar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 06 at 1:40pm
Funny you should say that, there's been a healthy debate amongst the Contender group to decide if we should stick to National numbers (i.e. GBR620 Wink) or go for plaque numbers on the sail. The argument was that it would make the fleet look much bigger, as plaque numbers are unique - and in 4-digits numbers. On the other hand, you might get a big influx of the class in one country and your 3-year old UK boat looks ancient when you're trying to sell it, only because tons of sailors have discovered the class in Malaysia! 
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