New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Controversial Topic of the Week
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Controversial Topic of the Week
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 1011121314 16>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Paramedic View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 27 Jan 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Controversial Topic of the Week
    Posted: 29 Jan 06 at 8:44am

I think the number is issued while the boat is being built and before it's measured. I've never seen a mirror without a sail number, and i've seen a number of GP14s that have numbers, but have definatley not been measured because they are used as school training boats.

Certainly in the Merlins That's roughly how it works, and in the year book there are a number of boats listed as "Probably not built" inferring that the number was issued, but either the order was cancelled (Unlikely) or they were to be amateur built and the owner changed his mind or ran out of time.
Back to Top
Bumble View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 12 Nov 05
Location: Taiwan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 302 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bumble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 06 at 8:51am
I don't think anyone needs to get a hot head about the sail numbers, so long as you accept that the sail numbers are not an accurate show of boats built. Nobody ever pretended it was otherwise.
Back to Top
Bumble View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 12 Nov 05
Location: Taiwan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 302 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bumble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 06 at 9:07am

Bringing it back on topic

Originally posted by aardvark_issues

..........
The reason I started the thread is that I believe is that the class has run out of things to do in the current ruleset and the only reason the thread on the N12 discussion board existed was to get an idea of what changes the members would like to see (if any). There would have been no point in a concept boat if it was a waste of materials and the class wasn't going to move in that way.

Is the class really out of ideas as to how to develop the rule set. Do you (aardvark) or anyother 12 sailors out there think those pictures linked a few posts ago are a poor way for the class to go? Board foils, wing masts, more battens, larger jibs, less weight?? If it was me owning a 12 and voting, Id go for stability in the class and sit on the current rule set for a while - similar to the MR.

I cannot for a minute believe your out of options though, and in a development class as used to change as the 12's its difficult to see why a concept boat is needed at all.
Back to Top
DiscoBall View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 03 Jan 05
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 305 		Post Options Post Options   Quote DiscoBall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 06 at 11:03am

A thread on a class message board isn't representative of any official class line - A certain aardvark just wants more excuses to get high on epoxy and indulge his cherub/moth side ...

The class is very much taking the stability route a to build up the new boat numbers - it seems to be working as more double bottom boats are now finding their way onto the secondhand market and being snapped up by people upgrading from older designs. 

Back to Top
Guest View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 21 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 06 at 12:52pm

Originally posted by Bumble

I don't think anyone needs to get a hot head about the sail numbers, so long as you accept that the sail numbers are not an accurate show of boats built. Nobody ever pretended it was otherwise.

Actually bumble I would think that most people DO think that sail numbers indicate number of boats. 
Back to Top
Bumble View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 12 Nov 05
Location: Taiwan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 302 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bumble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 06 at 1:47pm

Originally posted by Guest#260

Actually bumble I would think that most people DO think that sail numbers indicate number of boats. 

That's vey suprising as this thread has shown - just a modicum of investigation reveals numerical floors everywhere. I think most people would be aware SMODs with number based names start with their names number first and its face smackingly obvious that not all home built boats get finished.

I never said the sail numbers didn't indicate numbers of boats built.... just don't give an accurate figure. If this is anybody's suprise then it is me who is shocked. But then I was shocked when people watched Big Brother, voted for New Labour twice, ever bought a packet of Super Noodles or that flavoured water and cried uncontrollable tears for the demise of the Princess of Wales. British people are if nothing else, interesting.
Back to Top
Guest View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 21 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 06 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by Bumble

Originally posted by Guest#260

Actually bumble I would think that most people DO think that sail numbers indicate number of boats. 

That's vey suprising as this thread has shown - just a modicum of investigation reveals numerical floors everywhere. I think most people would be aware SMODs with number based names start with their names number first and its face smackingly obvious that not all home built boats get finished.

I never said the sail numbers didn't indicate numbers of boats built.... just don't give an accurate figure. If this is anybody's suprise then it is me who is shocked. But then I was shocked when people watched Big Brother, voted for New Labour twice, ever bought a packet of Super Noodles or that flavoured water and cried uncontrollable tears for the demise of the Princess of Wales. British people are if nothing else, interesting.

Most people can understand that most new SMOD classes with a numerical names don't start at 1 but Rob.e's claim that the numbers are padded by such a large amount is surprising to me ...

Rick
Back to Top
Chew my RS View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 05 Oct 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 790 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chew my RS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 06 at 12:43pm

Is it legal to skip numbers? Whilst the sail number might technically just be a unique identifier, the inference is clearly 'look how many we've sold'. Starting at numbers higher than 1 is cheeky enough (though it is sort of understandable to start a 'SMOD 1000' on number 1001) but jumping in multiples of 7 (for example) is just deceptive and can only be meant to imply greater sales than actually achieved. Can the RYA not police this?
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 06 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by Chew my RS


Is it legal to skip numbers?



Only if they make claims about boats sold based on the sail numbers I would think. There are some odd systems too: in Hobie Cats the sail number is exactly that, and if you buy a new sail you get a new sail number. Then if you want really weird how about the 29er system:-


C.1.4. The sail number shall be either:
(i) If either of the crew have finished in the top 50 in the preceding 29er
world championship then their sail number shall be that place, 1st to 9th
single digit, otherwise two digits.
(ii) Otherwise, the number shall be that shown on the ICA class plaque
and shall be three digits. Boat # 15 = 015 or Boat # 2345 = 345
(iii) Should there be multiplicity in numbers due to C.1.4. (i) or (ii), a RC
may make an arrangement suitable for the duration of the event involved.
Back to Top
Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 03 Aug 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1599 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 06 at 12:52pm

Originally posted by Guest#260

I am sure someone else will fill us in but I am not sure the above is true. When I sailed Mirror, 420, 470 & Fireball I am sure the number was issued by the RYA or association when the boats were measured not then they were planned

In classes I've been involved with, the number is issued to the builder before measurement, normally well beforehand. Apart from anything else, as people have indicated, many classes require the sail number to be engraved or otherwise attached to the hull, so the builder has to know it early on. 
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 1011121314 16>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy