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aardvark_issues View Drop Down
Really should get out more
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Posts: 505 		Post Options Post Options   Quote aardvark_issues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Controversial Topic of the Week
    Posted: 27 Jan 06 at 1:47pm
As the muppet who suggested the assymetric on the 12 forum, I had/have no intention of pointing the class down that route, if I even had the power to do so.

What I can see is that a lightweight (i.e under 60 kilos rigged, which is what my last boat would have weighed had I removed the lead) hiking assymetric boat would be a hell of a blast. There are enough classes out there already, so if I do it, it will be for my own entertainment. Lead is easy enough to take out if I wanted to go play...

The reason I started the thread is that I believe is that the class has run out of things to do in the current ruleset and the only reason the thread on the N12 discussion board existed was to get an idea of what changes the members would like to see (if any). There would have been no point in a concept boat if it was a waste of materials and the class wasn't going to move in that way.
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Bumble View Drop Down
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Posts: 302 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bumble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 06 at 1:47pm

Originally posted by Jack Sparrow


I think if a concept N12 was looked at it would be more along the lines of
a NS 14.

still NO kite just developed further. Without diligent rule changes you can
also develop your self into a corner and eventually do yourself a lot of
damage, and then have very sticky rule change decisions.

pic NS 14

[IMG] ../photos/forum/JackSparrow/2006-01-27_131706_dscn2996.jpg[/
IMG]

Bad luck about the photo but y and yting have to pay for their server.... and I bet bite for bite it's not cheap.

I never saw a NS14 but I consider a concept 12 could be like the tiger moth..... a moth made bigger for 2 - before they became planes. With wings the hull could be narrowed to a pencil, the weight to no limit and a couple of massive fully battened high aspect sails.

The point has been made already though - it wouldn't then be a N12 and the appeal would be a different one to a different demographic. Alot of people seem to be commenting on the boat without having sailed them. Ive only been out in one a few times but I'm convinced the racing is a tactical battle field, and a potentially wet one at that.
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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Posts: 2965 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 06 at 2:03pm
I don't think a concept N12 would be anything like a Tiger Moth.... just a
bit more like this ( lets hope the link works!)


http://
ns14.sailoz.net/2005nsw/index.html
Farr 3.7 Class Website
Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group
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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Posts: 1599 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 06 at 2:14pm

Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Did they actually make those 24 boats though?


Rotten 'ell Stefan, there's a limit to how much digging I'm prepared to do.

I have never, at any point, asked you to do a thing! I'm just pointing out the flaws in your methodology. The fact that many classes and manufacturers skip sail numbers is very well known. I wouldn't call it an "accusation"; there is no law against it.

 

 
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 06 at 2:20pm
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Did they actually make those 24 boats though?


Rotten 'ell Stefan, there's a limit to how much digging I'm prepared to do.

The fact that many classes and manufacturers skip sail numbers is very well known.

Stefan; do you have any specifics on this as last time I raised this I was told I was wrong ...

regards,

Rick
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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Posts: 1599 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 06 at 2:22pm
Oh yes. Am I going to tell all on a public forum? Oh no.
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 06 at 2:28pm

If your are stating facts then you have no problem ...

PM if you like ...

Rick



Edited by Guest#260
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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Posts: 1599 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 06 at 2:39pm
Thank you Rick but with respect, I'll make my own decisions on what to say and what not to. I am not going to kiss and tell on this one. Conclude what you like.
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Chew my RS View Drop Down
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Posts: 790 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chew my RS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 06 at 3:16pm

Originally posted by Jack Sparrow

I don't think a concept N12 would be anything like a Tiger Moth.... just a
bit more like this ( lets hope the link works!)


http://
ns14.sailoz.net/2005nsw/index.html

I'm actually seriously considering designing one these and getting one of your class mates to make it for me (he doesn't know it yet though!).  I've even started the preliminary design.  You can also stick an asymmetric on it and call it a MG14.  Without the kite the handicap is about 1025 (converting from the Aussie system) and thats with an actual (i.e.not measured) sail area of just 9.3m^2.
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 06 at 4:05pm

Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Thank you Rick but with respect, I'll make my own decisions on what to say and what not to. I am not going to kiss and tell on this one. Conclude what you like.

Fair enough, this is an issue that interests me as generally people use sail numbers as a measure of boats built and this was a fair assumption when a 3rd party such as the RYA used to issue certificates. With SMOD's that have no certificates we have no idea of the real numbers of boats out their.

IF some manufactures do this I personally think that it's a double edged sword;

If you pad the numbers it looks like you have sold loads but then it also looks like no-one goes to events as only the real boats can turn up ...

I suspect someone with eagle eyes who trawlled through open and club results could pretty soon point the finger as I am sure there cant be that many boats that never club race ...

Rick
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