Controversial Topic of the Week

Originally posted by JimC Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd Where I disagree is that, at least in all the classes I have sailed in, the people buying new boats take them to the Nationals. That's why they buy them. I really can't be bothered to do some serious research on this, but lets take the Laser 4000. According to the Racing Classes Review L4000 4658 was built in 2003. Looking at the last two Champs these are the boats with a later sail number that attended one of those Champs:- 4682, 4709, 4804, 4637, 4641, 4674, 4682 That's 7 out of 24 up to the latest sail number that did attend. No doubt some of those boats will turn out at Champs under future owners, or when the event comes round to a more local venue, but I think that goes a way to proving my point.

Did they actually make those 24 boats though? Some manufacturers are well known for "bigging up" classes by skipping sail numbers. Whether that applies to the L4000 I have no idea.

 

Chris is exactly right - chequebook sailing is a wonderful thing for the less wealthy in any class, provided they have the sense* to realise that talent beats money. The concept is only a problem when its used as FUD to put people off one class or another...

For instance a Rohan Veal has a deliberate policy of replacing his foiler Moths regularly to help grow the fleet.

If I get the time and enough old Champ results I'll try and analyse how often people change boats in different classes and if there's any pattern. I suspect it will turn out to be quite random though. Lot of work that sort of thing, but it can throw up interesting info... I noticed lat year doing something else that there seems to be a distinct correlation between how many women sail in your asymettric class and how many boats turn up for the Champs, but not much between how fast it is and the turnout. It means, Class Committees, that your number one priority is getting women to sail your boat!

[I did type common sense, but corrected myself:-) ]

this interclass sabre ratlling is a total waste of time!

There are very few, if any, classes be they one design or development where a boat over 10 years old wins a championships. This is not to say that old boats are always incapable, but the fact is if you have designs on winning a champs you tend to own a newer boat.

To say that older development class boats are less competetive than newer ones is also not necesserily true. Provided the hull shape is close to the modern standard there is no reason why an older boat can't compete given a decent rig. In classes such as the Merlin where hull shape has not changed significantly for 16 years you can buy a very competetive boat for about £3000-£4000. Indeed we did quite well in 2004 with a 14 year old Turner Tales, including winning the Midland circuit, and coming 11th in the Tiger trophy in 2005.

As for the National 12, there will always be that niche section of the market who want one. The danger that the class faces is not turning itself into something that it's not, and the thread on their forum about a "concept" boat and the ideas expressed look very dangerous to me as an outsider. The 12 is a non spinnaker boat, and no doubt that is why some people choose to sail one. The idea of putting an assymetric on seems utterly ludicrous to me, especially as there is already a 12ft high performance assymetric boat in the shape of the Cherub. Why turn the class into another one?

Edited by Paramedic

Originally posted by Paramedic The danger that the class faces is not turning itself into something that it's not, and the thread on their forum about a "concept" boat and the ideas expressed look very dangerous to me as an outsider. The 12 is a non spinnaker boat, and no doubt that is why some people choose to sail one. The idea of putting an assymetric on seems utterly ludicrous to me, especially as there is already a 12ft high performance assymetric boat in the shape of the Cherub. Why turn the class into another one?

I think if a concept N12 was looked at it would be more along the lines of
a NS 14.

still NO kite just developed further. Without diligent rule changes you can
also develop your self into a corner and eventually do yourself a lot of
damage, and then have very sticky rule change decisions.

pic NS 14

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Originally posted by JimC Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd Did they actually make those 24 boats though? Rotten 'ell Stefan, there's a limit to how much digging I'm prepared to do. Your accusation. You can prove it fairly readily: go through all the open meeting reports on Laser 4000 website and list all the boats in every event and see if the gaps stay or they start to fill. I'd guess you'd get between a qurter and a third doing opens but not Champs. Then you can also search up club results at the bigger 4000 clubs, or maybe try a FOI request to Laser!

Jimc, I would be most interested in the results should you choose to do that.

I can save you the trouble for the Mustos as we list all owners in  public on the web. I see the Lark class have started to do this also.

http://www.mustoskiff.com/sailors-database.htm

There are a few gaps (2%) due to boats changing hands and us losing track but on the whole we know who owns every boat.

We even list 099 that was sent to the great dinghy park in the sky by a road accident.

Rick