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Controversial Topic of the Week |
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Black no sugar 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 04 Dec 04 Location: Somewhere between Brighton and Lancing Online Status: Offline Posts: 3941 |
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 Topic: Controversial Topic of the WeekPosted: 26 Jan 06 at 9:32am |
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now breathe It is true that many sailors enjoy the ride rather than the race. However, they probably favour more traditional boats, like an Enterprise or a Mirror. I am probably wrong, but I can't imagine anyone looking to buy a 700 just to go fishing! |
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MainlySwimming
Groupie 
Joined: 28 Nov 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 65 |
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Posted: 26 Jan 06 at 9:52am |
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A very interesting statistic would be to see # boats at the nationals / total # boats sold for each class. Intuitively you would expect a much higher number for the high-performance boats but I suspect you'd see some suprises where a high % of boats from some high performance classes actually spend most of their time club racing and not on the circuit / nationals. You'd have to allow a 'wrecking rate' for older boats (eg # of MRs sold is probably not representative of # MRs still on the water)...but still would be interesting
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DiscoBall
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 03 Jan 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 305 |
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Posted: 26 Jan 06 at 10:05am |
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Chequebook sailing? - Parallel Universes… Looking at my 5 years in 12s and comparing it to the likely events of trying to sail in SMOD class: Year 1 N12 – save up £600 for a 1970s 12. Have enough money left over to do a small amount of the circuit and get to meet lots of new people. A the season progesses I get better and am at the front of the club fleet. Despite being the oldest boat at the champs I finish 10 places above last.The boat suits my novice abilities a new boat wouldn’t make any difference SMOD – not going to get a loan on my wages, therefore can’t buy new or used boat. Can’t do any practice, go racing on the circuit or meet any new friends through it. Just shiny ads in Y&Y. Years 2,3,4 N12 – upgrade to a 16 year old boat for just over a grand. New job but only a bit more cash. As boat is still cheap I can afford to do more of the circuit. With a bit of overtime I can upgrade kit piecemeal – carbon rig, better sails etc. Results improve, skills improve and get to go sailing with friends. SMOD – could just about afford to get the loan but wouldn’t then be able to afford to travel with the boat (the majority of everyone’s sailing expenses) – so limited to the club I don’t improve much or make friends outside of the club. Year 5 N12 – Job improves a bit and by transferring better kit across from old boat and begging and borrowing foils etc I can afford a new boat. Now have great boat suited to how I like to sail with great handling – worth the £6-700 more than a new SMOD. Skills have now improved to the point where I can make use of the technology – finish up in top 10 at champs. SMOD – can finally afford one but as I haven’t had much practice over the past few years I don’t do very well at champs and don’t know anyone. Class is mature and people are starting to get itchy feet for the next big thing. The future. N12 – Boat will depreciate a bit faster than SMOD, but will prob still be a competitive boat at champs level for 10 years and if properly maintained a competitive club boat for 30-40yrs - boat will always be welcome at class events so I can continue sailing with the same friends even if I don’t want to buy a new one. As boat is challenging to sail now have skills that are transferable to many other classes. SMOD – The class may last 20 years or it may last 2. Boat doesn’t depreciate much until manufacturer brings out a new model – it’s not significantly better but shiny advertising draws most of class away. Boat is now worthless (see Laser EPS, L5000 etc.) and have to find another huge chunk of money if I want to sail with the same friends in decent sized fleets. Is not much use as a first step for somebody wanting to go further than club racing. |
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5420
Really should get out more
Joined: 16 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 622 |
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Posted: 26 Jan 06 at 10:29am |
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but fast boats are still like the lasers where you have to get the right shift but at club leval it dose not mater that mch as keeping the boat up right is more imprtant but when you get to the opliks then every one there can sail the boat well and fast so it comes down to where you go on the race corse whever you went left up the second beat maters then
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JimC
Really should get out more
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 26 Jan 06 at 10:45am |
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Yeah, but there are boats where a very high percentage of the class goes to Champs, and boats where very few do. I noticed recently that only 2% of Cherubs built since 1988 have never attended the Champs, whereas for some classes its probably closer to only 2% have... Difficult to say what health is, but new boat sales is a guide, so is second hand prices (= demand for second hand boats), so is Champ attendance. However perhaps the very best figure is one that isn't publicly available, and that's the "total number of races entered" figure in the RYA Portsmouth yardstick database. |
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jeffers
Really should get out more
Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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Posted: 26 Jan 06 at 11:04am |
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Sorry I do disagree, any well looked after SMOD should be competitive for all of it's useful life. My first Laser was 20 years old and perfectly capable of winning at a club (and maybe open ciruit) level (as I proved). There was en even older Laser at my club (17,000 and something) Which regularly got close to the front off the fleet. OK Granted the Laser might be the exception when it comes to SMODs but then again maybe not, other 'restricted' classes such as the Fireball are effectively SMOD these days (you need a Winder hull to win as proven in all the major recent events, the Duvoisin hull is the same shape but does not seem to be as fast). However you can still win club level races in a 20 year old 'ball and they have a classic fleet which is well supported with it's own prizes at most major events. I would say (and this maybe wrong) but if you want good fleet racing pick a class that appeals to you and that is sailed close to you. If you want to do something different buy a development class boat. I think it is fair to say that a lot of the newer Cherubs while at the cutting edge did not cost a fortune to build proving that the 'DIY sailor' is alive and well! I am sure I will either be agreed with or shot down in flames by the Cherub fraternity...... As for me I sailed Lasers for 7 years, got to a reasonable club level and I now want a new challenge (hence the RS300 vs Blaze thread and the fact that I am 5 kilos overweight for the Laser). You pays your money you takes your choice. It will be interesting to see which SMOD classes are still around in 10 years time. The Blaze is one class that has seen a resurgence over the last few years. This has come from a very active class asoociation and has also proved that even SMODs can develop..... Paul |
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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Stefan Lloyd
Really should get out more
Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
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Posted: 26 Jan 06 at 11:17am |
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Which classes do you have in mind for the latter? I can't imagine many people buy a shiny new boat in a racing class and don't take it to the Nationals. |
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Bruce Starbuck
Posting king 
Joined: 14 Sep 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 124 |
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Posted: 26 Jan 06 at 11:31am |
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Didn't DJ win the Euros and Nationals in a Duvoisin last year? I think in the Fireballs, the Winder hulls have just reached a point of saturation whereby all the top sailors use them and so they win all the main events. Also, a winder hull is likely to be easier to sell second-hand, so you're protecting your money by buying one. I'd bet there's no actual performance difference worth speaking of. |
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JimC
Really should get out more
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 26 Jan 06 at 12:11pm |
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For 2% I was more thinking the half/half boats, but (for instance) I bet the majority of Lasers never go to the Nationals. Its only a small minority of the Laser Sailors at my club who do. If you are a "turn up and sail" sailor at your local club in a SMOD then it makes a lot of sense to buy a new boat every few years and run it until its getting a bit maintenance heavy, then trade it in for a new one. Its the lowest effort way of running a boat, and that's a high priority for folk who have busy lives. Edited by JimC |
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DiscoBall
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 03 Jan 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 305 |
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Posted: 26 Jan 06 at 12:26pm |
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Paul, I didn't say that a SMOD wouldn't be, undoubtedly many are pretty solidly built (if my text appeared to infer that I just didn't write it the right way- it's just whether there's a viable class to race in after a period of years. Lasers are perhaps a special case, but there's undoubtedly plenty of close fleet racing where you find 12s and Merlins - just as good as in any OD, the relative strengths and weaknesses of different designs are pretty subtle and provide an extra edge.
Tim |
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