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fizzicist View Drop Down
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Posts: 305 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fizzicist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RS300 vs Blaze
    Posted: 06 Jan 06 at 8:07pm

Visit RS300.com and look for a club near you on the club listing - any of the contacts will be delighted to loan you a boat to have a go in.

I'd like to address some of the criticisms raised about the 300:

It is far from unsailable, it's actually pretty easy to sail, if you sail it properly. By properly, I mean keep it flat, pay attention to boat trim and move smoothly around the boat. It doesn't forgive sloppy sailing and if you don't use the kicker properly you will always be overpowered. After all - there's 10metres of sail there.

The class is alive and kicking. We had 29 boats at the Nationals this year, 20 boats at the inlands and a strong, well attended travellers circuit. Used boats are selling within days. Some within hours. LDC are building new ones and we will be attending the Eurocup at Garda for the first time this year.

Soon after launch the 300 got a lot of criticism for being impossible to sail; this is down to people who got in the boat expecting it to be like a big Laser and soon discovered that they were making a lot of basic errors. I am a good club sailor at best and it took me six weekends to get on top of the thing and be able to sail it round a course at a competitive speed in a force 4.

I really recommend you try one, just don't write it off because it's not really easy first time out. Master a 300 and you'll be able to make just about anything go quickly.
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russell View Drop Down
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Posts: 68 		Post Options Post Options   Quote russell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 06 at 6:23pm

85KG shouldn't be too light for a modern rigged Phantom.  A common mistake is people don't realise how much mast rake and kicker to use when its windy.  There is a video on the Phantom web site showing Nick Beloe tacking at a windy open, he has to release kicker prior to the tack to allow the boom to clear the side deck!

I sold my Contender because it was just no fun on a small ish lake, they great on the sea and in steady wind, but its very difficult to get them to race to handicap on confined waters.  I nearly bought a Blaze (Mike you may recall me emailing you about 2 years ago) but I was badly let down by a seller - I drove 100 miles to view one only to find the owner didn't turn up, and then told me he had sold it and probably should have phoned me when questioned!  So I bought an old Phantom to see what they were like, loved it and then bought a new one.

But as has previously been said everybody is different.  The RS didn't suit me - I found it uncomfortable and frankly I didn't understand how the rig worked.  I was used to wires holding up the mast. 

I am sure it would be possible to arrange a test sail in any class you choose, thats the best way.

Russell

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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 06 at 3:06pm
Can't do a 600 as we have a PY limit of 950 at my club, RS600 is too fast for my lake.

I did consider a contender but dont fancy the idea of trapezing and helming at the moment.

RS or Blaze could be it (I am too light for a Phantom, there is a guy at my club who is the same weight as me but by far a better sailor and he struggles when the wind gets up). Looking round at second hand stuff now, there are not many 300's about but a fair few blazes. I notice the hull weight of the new boats is 5kg lighter than the originals, does this make a huge difference given then fact that they are weight with cb and other bits attached?


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TonyL View Drop Down
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Posts: 57 		Post Options Post Options   Quote TonyL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 06 at 2:42pm
Originally posted by allanorton

Originally posted by Olly4088

I'm going to be looking for a cheap 2nd boat for myself as my Mrs doesnt like the sea, any suggestions for cheap powerful single handed boats???

Have you or Jeffers considered the Contender?  Cheap boats available, powerful, should see off Phantoms.

For a cheap quick singlehander (not much more than beach boat money really) you could do worse than find an EPS - have seen these go for around £1k. It's a completely dead class so forget class racing, but these are actually quite nice boats with a decent rig, nice comfortable glass/carbon wings, not too tricky to sail etc.  Of course if you fancy trapezing you should look at the 600 and Contender as other posts have said.
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dics View Drop Down
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Posts: 317 		Post Options Post Options   Quote dics Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 06 at 2:19pm
I agree with you John. What a lot of people do not realise is that the sail is cut for a prebent mast and the rig being unstayed does not have any prebend therefore you need to crank on the kicker to get the mast the bend to fit the sail. It is from this point that the rig is powered up and then any more kicker will depower. Once you know this you will very rarely be over powered. The reaches are blistering and you just have enough kicker on to stop the top of the mast bending forward and the boat will plane very nicely and the Blazes are left behind. 
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John Wilson View Drop Down
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Posts: 26 		Post Options Post Options   Quote John Wilson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 06 at 1:49pm

I heard of a 300 selling within the day of it's advert for sale not so long ago. Doesn't sound like a sticking market to me!

 

The RS300’s reputation as an unsailable boat is totally unfair! I believe it is a boat many more people could master if they would only give it a try. I don’t find it much different from my laser radial.

 

I think the 300 has got the reputation as a tricky boat from people who have taken one out and spent the whole time swimming because they haven’t known how to set her up for safe sailing. The 300 is relatively easy to sail with the kicker tight, as this takes masses of power from the rig and also prevents nose diving! The boat is also far easier to sail if you sit a little too far back. All problems solved in two easy steps!

 

Most people underestimate how much kicker the rig can take & the amount needed certainly at first seemed excessive, but this is compared to the laser where at the windward mark if you don’t let the kicker off you get a bent mast & a bucket load of weather helm! Then as you improve you can sit further forward & the settings can be released to a faster setting. Steve Cockerill points this out in his article on the boat when he says: “…speed or stability. You can go for either... but not both.”

 

I was lucky enough to be told when I started off in the 300 to “flatten the sail & keep her flat” by the other 300 sailors at my club & this is certainly good advice. If it was more widely known I’m sure the boat would not have such an unjust reputation!
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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1635 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 06 at 1:48pm

I am 6ft tall and 85kg.... Just tired of being hammered by the Phantoms at our club and want to have a bit more fun (means I won't get class racing but you pays your money you takes your choice!).

Paul - At Burghfield we race Blaze against Phantom nearly every week and have done for several years now - so are in a good position to shed some light on this one.  Over a series we find they are similar in speed with a modern (carbon rigged) Phantom enjoying the edge on lighter days and the Blaze when it blows. The break point being 7-8kn.  The Blaze IMHO is also particularly effective in waves and wind when its leverage enables a lot of power to be applied.  It also has less rocker which gives it a higher top speed but this means it tacks a little slower than the Phantom.  Both boats have a wide crew  weight range but there is significant overlap between the two.  At 85 kg you would be towards the ligher end of the Phantom weight range but only just above the middle of the Blaze (association) one.   The weights of the crews in the top three positions at the 53 boat Nationals in in 2005 were approx 76kg, 82kg, 103kg - the advantage of a stayed refined rig is that you can set it up to suit YOU !  Both are good boats that are relatively fast, forgiving and refined and you could have a lot of fun in either (or even in a 300 if grabs your imagination).  My recommendation is to try all three but also consider others as well.  As some have suggested if you want to go faster still the Contender is a great boat or you could spend a little less and look at a 600 or more and add in the 2 or 3 sail singlehanders. 

Cheers - Mike '720'  Blaze Class Association  

 

 

  

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dics View Drop Down
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Posts: 317 		Post Options Post Options   Quote dics Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 06 at 1:44pm

Jeffers check out http://www.rs300.com/ and the vidoes under RS300 media to see what the 300 is about.

The 300 is a hard boat to sail if you do not sail well. It is unforgiving and won't let you get away with sloppy sailing, becasuse of this the 300 will improve your sailing on all points so much and will make you a very competant sailor. However, the rig is easy to depower, lots of righting movement due to the leverage on the wings and the cockpit is a great design with all the bits of string always at your fingertips. The 300 will take about a year to get used to and then still lots of learning but the fun starts straight away. You will swim but after a couple of capzies you will be able to right the boat in a matter of seconds without getting wet (unless you nose dive! Once in four years is not bad going for me). Don't worry about the capsize becasue everybody drops the 300.

Try both boats serveral times and remember that the 300 takes time. In the past all too many people have bought one and sold it within a year. Those guys have just scratched the surface of what is remarkable boat has to offer and have missed out on the best parts.

Whatever you get I hope it's the right boat for you and enjoy it.

Dics

 

Oh yes you don't need to be fit to sail one either! The 300 will make you fit!

 
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Jamie600 View Drop Down
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Posts: 718 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jamie600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 06 at 1:43pm
300's are definately not sticking at the moment, second hand values are up slightly and are very hard to find. LDC have recently made a batch of new boats to cater for demand.
To be fair you can't say one boat is better than the other, they are completely different beasts.
For arguments sake lets say they go as fast as each other, the difference is the way it is delivered.
Some people like to fight the boat, and feel they have acheived something at the end of the race by keeping upright, some just want to go fast in comfort.
As I said, it's GT40 vs 911

I assume the original poster knows what his style of sailing is, level of ability and what pushes his buttons, the comments on here should allow you to work out which is suitable, or failing that take a test sail in both.
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Posts: 409 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian29937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 06 at 1:18pm

Originally posted by Olly4088

I'm going to be looking for a cheap 2nd boat for myself as my Mrs doesnt like the sea, any suggestions for cheap powerful single handed boats???

RS600's are very reasonable these days - a lot of bangs for your buck.

The Contenders a good choice too, much more stable but second hand examples were pretty rare when I sold mine last year.

What else is sailing around your area?

Ian

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