Swift Solo

 

My name is Bram and I'm the designer of the Swift.  I was just today made aware of this forum on Swifts--sorry for coming in so late. 

Let me start by pointing out that the data on the Musto came to me from article about the single handed trials in France some time ago. The data on the chart was taken directly from that chart originally (not the Rs 700). I apologize if it is wrong and will get it corrected tonite.  To date, this is the first I have heard of it.

It seems that much misinformation is spread on these forums about the Swift.  The boat weighs 170 lbs  including the pole, the rudder cassette, the sock, and all running rigging or 195 lbs ready to race including blades.

We currently have very close to 30 in the water and the class was officially formed in March of this year.  74 Swifts are currently being built in 14 countries although I need to point out that a few of those licenses have been paid  for a long time and have not started construction to my knowlege (the website says 13 but we just added South Africa this week).

We have raced the Musto between 12 and 14 times in Seattle and the US Musto dealer is a friend of mine.  In fact, we have invited the N/A Musto class to join our clinic and North American Championships in Florida (they will have seperate starts).  They have accepted and we expect three to five Mustos and 15 Swifts.

The jib sheeting system on the Swift is the result of a year of non stop development before the boat design was started and can not be adapted to other boats because the boat / rig has to be designed around the system-not the other way around.  Many of the top skiff sailors in the US have sailed the Swift (a couple of medal winners) and commented on this system.  You can find their comments on the system (including Julians) on my website  www.swiftsolo.org .  

I'm a bit surprised whenever I hear the comment that something was tried before by someone else and it doesn't work.  If that were indeed the test,  the Wright Brothers could have better used the time they wasted on the Wright Flyer because "it had been tried before and it didn't work".  Almost nothing I've developed for skiffs worked 100% the first time. 

I think it's best to let the growth that we are experiencing in Seattle do the taliking regarding performance (the only place where Swifts and Mustos are currently raced together).  In the end, a completed Swift will cost you twice what a Musto costs or you can build one yourself for about US $9000.  Each individual has to evaluate the cost difference and make his own vaule decisions.

I hope this helps,

Bram     

About "If that were indeed the test,  the Wright Brothers could have better used the time they wasted on the Wright Flyer because "it had been tried before and it didn't work".  Almost nothing I've developed for skiffs worked 100% the first time."

Actually, didn't the Wright Brothers start the project by learning all about the state of the art (by asking the Smithsonian for all the information they had); didn't they then respect the lessons learned by those who had gone before (ie their respect for Lilienthal's lift/drag figures); and didn't they add a fair bit of original thinking?



Edited by Chris 249

Originally posted by Guest#260 Sorry Jim I don't understand the point you are trying to make ...

The cliche about develeopment boats being expensive to run is one of the most repeated of all instances of development boat bashing. All the ****** time.

I have no problem with people wanting to sail SMODs because they don't want the hassle of thinking about sail design, rig design and all the rest and just want to go sailing, but the propaganda about development boats being expensive gets to me. It just ain't true like for like.

I have built a Swift Solo and I find some of the comments interesting. I used to sail a 505 years ago and I don't find the Swift to be all that dificult to sail. The top of the mast is very bendy and the rig is easy to depower when it blows.

I built my Swift for two main reasons.
1. I love to build boats. I also love the cedar strip method.
2. I've always wanted a skiff since I saw an 18.

Not having crew has been a problem and finding a good driver is one of the reasons I sold my 505 years ago. Racing for me is a secondary reason for the boat. I find singl handing the Swift with the sheeting system is much easier than single handing the 505. I think I even feel more stable than I did single handing the 505.

Though I have not sailed in a lot of heavy air, the times that I did, I found the boat to be very responsive and easy to get out of a jam. I was able to chase down a Hobie 16 at any point of sail without having to resort to the kite. With the kite up, the boat is even faster.

I have yet to go down hard. My biggest problem racing is that I go out on the wire too early after tossing the kite and "teabag". The boat is very easy to get back up and the one time I capsized with two sails, I was able to right the boat almost as fast as I did my laser, the mast barely touched the water.

Ture the boat may not be for everyone but it has been great for me.

Oh one last thing. Forget about marine ply wood, you can't use it. Foam is also out. Class rules are for cedar wood core, carbon/kevlar inside, and S glass outside. Constructing the hull is rather easy. It is the rig that is the most complicated and since there is room for you to play a bit, you can flex you brain a bit.

Originally posted by Doug.H Hey guys!  Although im slightly disheartened by the price estimates youve just sed.  will it really be twice the price of the musto skiff??  And even to build myself (which i wont cos im no boat builder) it still seems quite pricey.  Sorry for my niavety to all this but how come the price is so..........up there.  would there really be no way of getting it down? And finally some questions - (trying to tread carefully with this question)  How does performance compare to the likes of the musto skiff??  It seems to have a fair sized sail area to it, so does it have the speed to match? And how does ease of handling relate between the 2 boats?  Doug

Doug, Thanks

It's always hard to answer these questions without starting a pissing match--mostly from guys who've never seen or sailed either boat.  Please don't take anything I say to mean that the Musto people are anything but quality people who have led the way in single-handed skiff sailing. 

Yes, a new Swift complete with sails, cover, and launching dolly will cost you $23,000 US.  The construction method is significantly more expensive than typical skiff construction as are the construction materials.  In addition, there is much more hardware (partially because of the jib and partially because of more sophisticated rig control) and the sails are made from material that is three times as expensive as 49er sail cloth.

Years of racing (505's and 49ers) and observation has led me to believe that most dinghys remain competitive at the very top level for a year or so.  We do some rig tension tests that we think demonstrate why (at least in part).  The Swift contruction methods produce a hull that  will show less degradation in this test and in general deterioration on a scale that will reduce long term costs by a significant amount (you won't have to replace your boat or sails nearly as often to stay competitive at the top level as you do with most boats.)  Experience has shown us that reducing the weight any further will certainly lead to a less tactical and harder to sail skiff-- so the all up (ready to sail) weight of 195 lbs is not something that we seek to reduce.  Weight reduction in the mast, spin pole, and rudder are the exceptions.

let me preface my answer to your performance question by stating that the hard facts may not be as hard as they seem.

We have never lost a race to a Musto.  The Swift seems to point higher upwind and simply go lower and faster downwind.  It seems significantly easier to learn to sail and faster to tack and jibe. This does not mean that a world class Musto sailor would not be able to kick my 61 year old ass.  I believe that the US Musto dealer will agree that most of the advantage that the Swift has shown to date is the result of a faster learning curve on the Swift.  He did sail a Swift in our first championship and would have won  the regatta had he not capsized in a big gust on the last downwind leg of the last race.  Another way of putting it is that a Swift sailor can become competitive comparitively quickly.  In the end, the boat speed of the two boats may be more similar than the results indicate to date.

An interesting observation after racing some top skiff sailors in the US --Swift against Swift.  While the light guys can hold there own upwind in breezes up to 15 knots, the advantage seems to slightly favor the heavier guy downwind--even in 5 or 6 knots of breeze (the minimum trapping wind velocity). This is a bit strange in the skiff sailing world.

In the end, if up-front money is the primary concern, buy a Musto and get out there.  It is a great boat and the Musto people I have communicated with are also great.  If you are looking for something that is fast, easy to sail, and uses the highest quality products available, buy a Swift.  Either way, you will not go wrong because you'll begin perhaps the most healthy addiction you will ever experience.  Single-handed skiff sailors in both classes are the most helpful you'll find in all of sailing.

Bram