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Carbon Topmast for the Radial
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Isis View Drop Down
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Posts: 2753 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Carbon Topmast for the Radial
    Posted: 17 Dec 05 at 4:22pm
I have read the book (although not very thoroughly and dident remember that part) and sailed a radial (with XD) for several seasons before I got the moth at the start of this summer.

I must admit I agree with you and take back part of my comment. In real life it does make a difference but IMO it should only make a noticable difference at club level. The XD makes it easier to blur in cock ups by being able to adjust on virtualy any point of sailing (if you have too) whereas the old system required a lot more planning ahead and if you couldnt adjust before the mark (for example) that was were you lost places. At the kind of level we are talking about Id hope that people are less prone to these kind of errors and other than the strong wind/kicker that you mentioned (and I had blissfully forgotten about) It should be pretty similar. Even if I am totaly wrong about this (and I am quite happy to be corrected having only sailed properly with the radial rig) I cant imagine that the controls make as much difference as the proposed mast would.

In a lot of OD classes you are permited to use you own control systems but there would be an outcry if carbon masts were bought in.
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 05 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by Isis

Originally posted by Guest#260

Originally posted by Isis

dont mess up the OD factor which is the one thing that the radial has going for it other than fleet size

Changing the spec of a controlled component dosn't impact the OD factor. Just as the XD kit didn't.



The XD kit didnt change the performance or character of the boat at all though, it just made it more user friendly and (slightly) more pleasant to sail. The new controls did nothing new and achieved the same result, they just made it slightly easier to get there.

I disagree; how often do you race a Laser?

I sail one every weekend over the winter and the guys without the XD controls are disadvantaged. They cant adjust the rig as easily and as such lose ground adjusting the kicker etc; With the old controls getting the kicker block to block was a real drama in a breeze; now it is easy - of course this has changed the character of the boat, in Bens book he talks about this ... have you read it?

Rick



Edited by Guest#260
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Isis View Drop Down
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Posts: 2753 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 05 at 3:21pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

Originally posted by Isis

dont mess up the OD factor which is the one thing that the radial has going for it other than fleet size

Changing the spec of a controlled component dosn't impact the OD factor. Just as the XD kit didn't.



The XD kit didnt change the performance or character of the boat at all though, it just made it more user friendly and (slightly) more pleasant to sail. The new controls did nothing new and achieved the same result, they just made it slightly easier to get there.
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Posts: 302 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bumble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 05 at 3:02pm

Originally posted by Chris 249

Isn't the whole point the fact that "optimum leach tension" varies, according to the sailor's weight? That's the way it's always been in Finns and (inasmuch as there are variations in mast sockets) in Lasers.

The concept of tuning mast bend to sailor weight has been around for decades in Finns etc, hasn't it? So

So.......... even a finn Europe sailor will tell you the mast can only be bent so much. Consider, the top of the mast is more 'bendy', so its easier to bend to the maximum bent position..... how does this help a lighter weight in the laser. The light weights, are so as I explained, because they are not heavy enough to imerse the boat to a point where their weight is an effective counter.

I don't know where your leech (spelling) issue comes from... as I understood it, upwind (when your overpowered) the leech should be parallel to your direction. We all need to point, even small people. so?
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 05 at 2:56pm

Originally posted by Isis

dont mess up the OD factor which is the one thing that the radial has going for it other than fleet size

Changing the spec of a controlled component dosn't impact the OD factor. Just as the XD kit didn't.

Rick

PS Of course the Europe would have been better left in but the perception was that money brought medals which is of couse daft ...
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Posts: 302 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bumble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 05 at 2:51pm

Originally posted by Isis

........ surely the powers that be knew this was going to happen?
'Youve made your bed, now lay in it' dont mess up the OD factor which is the one thing that the radial has going for it other than fleet size.........

Agree, very well put!!!!

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Posts: 302 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bumble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 05 at 2:49pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

You are missing the point; this is not about trying to make the boat go faster ...

It is about lowering the average weight to fit with the average woman ...

Rick

Isn't that the point discussed.....is this going off topic, or just not where you want it to Rick?
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Posts: 2753 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 05 at 2:48pm
I must admit I was surprised and disapointed when the radial was chosen instead of the europe. The main argument against the europe that I heard was the suposed arms race leaving the poorer countries behind but in a boat like that there is only a certain amount of development you can do before everything ends up very similar and the costs would have leveled out by the next olympics IMO.

I sailed one some time ago and thoroughly enjoyed it and by all acounts it was well suited most of the girls sailing it... If the radials weight range is such a problem why use it? surely the powers that be knew this was going to happen?
'Youve made your bed, now lay in it' dont mess up the OD factor which is the one thing that the radial has going for it other than fleet size
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 05 at 2:09pm

Chris249 - I think some people are missing the whole point of this proposal to ISAF ...

Rick
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 05 at 11:56am
"This has limited value for the Laser Radial as Al top masts already allow the mast to be bent as far as possible (boom to the deck), and the sail is allready cut to give optimum leech tension at this point."

Isn't the whole point the fact that "optimum leach tension" varies, according to the sailor's weight? That's the way it's always been in Finns and (inasmuch as there are variations in mast sockets) in Lasers.

Surely a lighter sailor wants less leach tension (induced by extra topmast bend) so they can depower. You can't get the same depowering in a Laser by simply using less sheet or vang, as the unstayed mast that will create more depth in the head.

The optimum leach tension for someone 74kg or so is different from the optimum leach tension for someone of 64kg.

The concept of tuning mast bend to sailor weight has been around for decades in Finns etc, hasn't it? So
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