Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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List classes of boat for sale |
Put these factors in order .... |
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Scooby_simon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 14 Dec 05 at 12:49pm |
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As you say; in the classes you sail it's a massive difference, but I assume they tack quickly and don't kill you for bad boat handeling to the same degree.
Remember 1% is 10m in a 1000m leg; in a cat you loose 20m in a slightly bad tack. How much of a shift do you need to gain 10m ? How much more pressure will give you ther extra 10m. This is why I think other things are more important when the front of the fleet is already going the same speed (well nearly) |
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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
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Guest ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 21 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
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Seems I pass for crew and helm then ... |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Think you got that the wrong way round mate. Its natural crews who calmly evaluate a problem and find answer, natural helms who shout and scream... |
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Stefan Lloyd ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
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It is slightly confusing to agree with someone and then find them telling you why you are mistaken. I thought we were both arguing that boatspeed differences are less significant than other factors, at least in our own classes. I wasn't discussing boat-handling. But in terms of boat-handling, S/38s are heavy and relatively underpowered boats that most certainly don't accelerate quickly from bad tacks, and any kind of keelboat will bite you hard for boat handling errors downwind, especially in a decent breeze.
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Offshoretiger ![]() Posting king ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Jan 05 Location: Scotland Online Status: Offline Posts: 179 |
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Yeah Neil I agree if the boat doesnt feel right and its not sailing right then you need to sort it. But usually when Jamie tells me to shut up and sail is when we are half way up a beat and the boat feels OK but not great and we arent loosing on the other boats around us. At that point if I try and tweak to get the boat to go from feeling fine to feeling great we usually end up going slower cos I stop concentrating on driving. So it tends to be faster for me to keep my mind on the job. And to be fair I do this to helms as well when Im crewing. Espesially helms that always bear away when they put there head in the boat to look for string.
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...yesterday I couldnt spell enginner...now I are one!......
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Stefan Lloyd ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
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Do you have to concentrate on moving your feet when you walk? Helming should be as natural as walking. If it isn't, you need to spend more time at the tiller. You can bet Ben Ainslie isn't "concentrating on driving". He is thinking tactics, wind-shifts, current, other boats and boat-tune. That said, one of the best things I found about being the driver but not the skipper on other people's big boats is that I could just concentrate on making the boat go fast. All the other stuff involved in running a boat with 9 people on board was someone else's problem, whereas on my own boat I had to deal with it as well as steer. Nevertheless, "making the boat go fast" means talking to the trimmers all the time to get the boat going, not just waggling the wheel and staring at the tell-tales. |
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Jamie ![]() Posting king ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Jul 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 164 |
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No but she does have an unfortunate tendancy to walk into things. And is constantly trying to walk under cars. Is driving a car as natural as walking? No you constantly have to look ahead and concentrate to keep controll. If you look into the car to say find the button on your radio you do so as quick as possible so as not to loose concentration on the coming road. When driving your boat you have the extra complication of the road being constantly unstable. and the other road users not traveling on the same linear path as yourself. So if you look in to the boat to tweak the lifter, pull on some shroud or ease the forestay back you have to be aware that you are taking your eyes of the road. I know that I can't steer as good a path through the water when I'm trying to find the string that ajusts the lower shrouds. So in a situation that we will definatly loose more by fiddling when we are doing pretty well in the race I will tell my helm that we WILL loose more than we MIGHT gain. Whether she listens to me is entirley her choice. |
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Offshoretiger ![]() Posting king ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Jan 05 Location: Scotland Online Status: Offline Posts: 179 |
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Im well aware I need to spend more time on the tiller, spending less time in borrowed boats would also be great cos I could spend less time trying to remember if the blue string is in/out or up/down on the jib cars and which color the kicker is on this boat As you said above being the driver but not the skipper on a big boat is easier than running the whole crew. When Ive got main in one hand, tiller in the other, one eye on the tell tales, one eye on whats around me, one ear listening to my crew, part of my brain thinking about how the boat feels and part of my brain thinking about what I want to do next its no wonder that working out what bit of string might help, finding a spare eye to spot it and a spare hand to ajust it can sometimes slow me down a bit...... As for trying to walk under cars, there is no traffic were I live!! And I'll probably be even worse after a few more months in USAland, even if I remeber to look, Ill look the wrong way Edited by Offshoretiger |
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...yesterday I couldnt spell enginner...now I are one!......
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NeilP ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Nov 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 271 |
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OT - you're missing the real point. When Jamie tells you not to worry about it, it has nothing to do with his careful analysis of the potential gains/losses as he claims, and everything to do with the fact that, being a stoodent AND a Sloth, he has absolutely no idea what's wrong or how to fix it! It's all in code, like everything crews say |
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No FD? No Comment!
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Stefan Lloyd ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
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We are talking at cross purposes. The original point I was responding to was crew saying "Shut up and steer". My argument is that it is the helm who is in the position to call overall boat tune. Crew just doesn't have the same feedback the tiller provides (and I've done plenty of crewing as well as helming). Who pulls which string is another level of detail. The helm shouldn't be doing things the crew can do and the boat should be set up so the crew can do as much as possible upwind. If the helm is bobbing about trying to pull strings then either the boat is laid out wrong or the helm just needs to learn to do more than one thing at a time. The helm ought to know exactly where controls are without having to look for them. Nobody said it is easy. I once talked to the guy who has won more Salcombe Merlin Weeks than anyone else in the last 15+ years. Sailing at Salcombe often involves long short-tacking sessions to keep out of foul tide, every 20 seconds or so for upwards of a mile. Before every tack, he eases kicker, tightens main sheet, roll-tacks the boat, eases mainsheet while head to wind, pumps the main back on as the boat is rolled upright, centres the traveller and pulls kicker back on as the boat accelerates. All of that every 20 seconds for 15 minutes or so. I get exhausted just thinking about it. |
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