Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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List classes of boat for sale |
Put these factors in order .... |
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swiftsolo.org ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 14 Jul 05 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 101 |
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I would categorise it this way. Before the event
During the event
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NeilP ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Nov 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 271 |
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Here's my take - for what it's worth!
In the end though, unless you are a complete genius, the chances of winning over a series in a slow boat are very slim. There will be other people in the fleet whose starting, strategy, boathandling and tactics are just as good as yours, and if their boat is faster...well, you do the maths! Neil |
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No FD? No Comment!
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Guest ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 21 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
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Why do you like being anonymous? Are you saying things here you would not say in person? Rick |
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Scooby_simon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415 |
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To people who are putting boatspeed first; the original qustion (with some clarification) was saying that you are already near the front of the fleet; so what wuld these be; I would assume that in this case; boatspeed would already be near the best you can get. This is why I don't feel Boatspeed is VERY important as you are already very fast (in fleet terms) - thus the other factors become more important. |
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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
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Guest ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 21 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
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Correct - most of the front third of any fleet will have the boatspeed issue resonably under control; it's the human factors that make the difference from that point ... |
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damp_freddie ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 20 Oct 05 Location: Aruba Online Status: Offline Posts: 339 |
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In terms of the dinghy context I can't offer comment, but in keel boats (OD) you certainly do pay a hell of attention to boat speed on the day - some by feel, others by instruments (sailing by numbers-yawn!) others simply by the leech-land relative movement on the fleet. Instrumments lie of course and are irrelevant to dinghies. Most of the real consistent winning boats I have sailed on (keel) have actaully a near paranoid level of concern for boat speed if they are not clearly in a controlling situation with good speed. If somehting feels wrong, a discussion is taken a nd a call on settings made 'Twitchy tweakers' in dinghies seem to shake out a lot of boat speed in messing about with lines and settings on the water. good thread BTW IMHO ODTP (off down the pub) |
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Bruce Starbuck ![]() Posting king ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 124 |
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Yeah. How many tacks would you do in a Nationals race first beat? I'd say either 4 or 6 would be the most common answer in a displacement boat if you're near the front. Probably 4 for the leader. I wasn't talking about being so bad at tacking that you're falling out of the boat, but just being of an average standard. If an amazing roll-tacker is in the race as well, and takes 1M out of you each tack, that's only 4M in a beat. If his boatspeed isn't quite blistering, then he will at some point find himself dropping into another boat's lane or not quite crossing a starboard-tacker and having to do some extra tacks as a result and his boat-handling advantage will be meaningless. An Enterprise nationals race probably wouldn't be started in under 5 knots of wind, and would be on the sea, so not that shifty. Always boatspeed conditions. If the wind dropped so light in a race that it was quicker to roll-tack up the beat then I'd expect to see an abandonment flag. Now, winning an Enterprise open meeting would be a different matter altogether. Boatspeed wouldn't be all that important at all, compared to tacking and mark-rounding ability but my example was about a nationals race.
To anyone who thinks tactics are more important than boatspeed, quite often a nationals winner's scoresheet will look something like this: 1,3,1,2,11,12,1,1,4,3 : The winner would have a string of good results from most days and a couple outside the top 10 in some different conditions, say when it's windier. Given that this person is employing the same championship-winning standard of tactics throughout the week, it must be the case that the change in conditions has left their boatspeed affected to the worse on that windy day. Enough to drop them from the front to outside the top 10. So how important would tactics be on the windy day for someone who struggles in those conditions but wins races when it's light and medium? Compared to their boatspeed problems, not even remotely important. In my example, the range of results on the days when you're fast could be from say 1st to 4th, decided by your tactics and strategy, but a small decrease to boatspeed for a day would be enough to drop the national champion out of the top 10 in many cases, regardless of any other factor. BTW, I don't remember it saying you had to disclose your identity to contribute to this forum. I thought it was optional. There are loads of anonymous people on here. I choose to remain anonymous because it suits me. Does it make my points any less valid? Well, probably, yes, but so what? It's not a court of law, just a discussion forum.
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Stefan Lloyd ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
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Championship beats are usually long. Only 4 tacks on average; not in any class I've sailed. In plenty of classes in light/moderate conditions, tacking costs nothing. It might even (whisper it) speed you up. Wind steady on the sea; that's a big generalisation. Try sailing in the Solent with the wind anywhere from NW to E. Huge shifts are common. You've gone beyond anonymity. You won't even say what class you are talking about. It does make a meaningful dialogue a bit difficult.
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Offshoretiger ![]() Posting king ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Jan 05 Location: Scotland Online Status: Offline Posts: 179 |
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I reckon boat speed on the day is definitley important, even if half of it is psycological. Ive definatley had days and races were I just dont feel I have speed on boats I would normally expect to be with or be beating. At that point sometimes you need to start tweaking. Other days you feel like your flying and you go well. The one that really messes you up is when your speed is OK but you start tweaking anyway. So when Im driving and I start saying it all feels slow my crew usually tells me to shut up and drive and stop worrying about it. I know this question was originally about the top end of the fleet where general boat speed is going to be good but feeling fast on the day is probably still important and knowing how to get from being or feeling slow to being fast. And if compasses count as insturments then there not nessesariley irrellavant to dinghies....
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...yesterday I couldnt spell enginner...now I are one!......
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Scooby_simon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415 |
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You are missing the point IMO; the speed difference we are talking about might be 1% (max); all the top boats WILL be going the same speed (almost); So take it cat sailing on a small/medium sized course of say 15km upwind/dw; that is a difference of 150m; that is one bad tack !, 2 bad Gybes or going the wrong way up one beat ! Simple as that. |
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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
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