RS500 ...

Let me explain. Its pretty well documented that the spread of finishing time at most Champs is around 20% - equivalent of around 200 points of yardstick.

lets say that the difference between a slow boat and a fast boat in a class is what - the difference between a Laser and a Laser Radial? Seems a lot to me but lets use that. 23 points of yardstick then. Now we race Radials and Lasers together at my club, and even in the light stuff a light radial sailor struggles to beat a heavy Laser sailor on the water. So the max speed difference you can get from weight is probably equivalent to about 20 points of PY. Is that reasonable? Actually both numbers are probably wildly exaggerated.

So at most 20% of the difference between first and last can be explained by boat speed and being the wrong weight, and probably much less. All the rest is about how well you sail it. And that's why I think for mid fleet or lower sailors there's no point in worrying too much about weight and boatspeed - there's probably 5 minutes a lap available by sailing better for every minute that's available by dietin, putting on weight or boat tuning.

If you enjoy the boat speed fiddling that's fine (I admit I do), and thinking you have a fast boat does make you sail better. But the smart money is that you'd be better off practising. What confuses people is that no top sailor ever has a slow boat, but its not really cause and effect. They might be 5th instead of first with a slow boat, but not 50th instead of first.

First of all - thanks for the great responses, really good food for thought - some reflections on that in a minute.

Second of all - apologies if I have (unintentionally) driven this thread off topic, I see it has been cited in the 'Do We Need Moderators' thread as an example!!  My first post was about the RS500, honest guv!

Any road up - Jim, I had never seen an analysis of the effect of weight like the one in your post. It makes a lot of sense.   Thinking about my two objections to a a boat which is 'underpowered for my weight', I think the second one (uncomfortable sailing) is more real/important than the first one (racing speed affected by team weight).  So, I still don't fancy the RS500 for heavyweight grown-up his'n'hers teams like me & the missus. (Hooray, back on topic!).

By the way, I've never sat in a Five-oh, would love to try, but I think its a bit more 'techie' than we would be comfortable with.

Thinking you have a fast boat does indeed make you sail better, I believe - partly because you relax & sail the boat better, partly because (I think) if you have paid enough attention to the set-up to get the boat balanced well, it's much easier to sail well, from a tactical and boat handling point of view as well as raw speed.  I've sailed a poorly set up L4000 and a nicely set up one - what a difference.  I remember a Y&Y ad from one of the big sailmakers, a few years back, which had the headline 'boatspeed makes you an instant tactical genius' or something like that.  True, for the reasons above, I think!

cheers

 

Originally posted by grimupnorth I think the second one (uncomfortable sailing) is more real/important than the first one (racing speed affected by team weight).  So, I still don't fancy the RS500 for heavyweight grown-up his'n'hers teams like me & the missus.

That of course is quite logical and sensible. It was a nice suprise (although I should have expected it) when I got my IC that the boat is comfortable in many more wind strengths than any other boat I've sailed. I'm certainly not missing the cramp I kept getting in the rear calf trapezing in moderatre weather. You just have to remeber how much seat is sticking out behind you as you pass the committe boat[fx blush].

Probably worth getting a ride in a 505. Nice boats and the basic tune settings are pretty documented for standard rigs, so worth trying. For club racing you don't have to adjust all the adjustements...

The Tasar would be a great one design choice.  The Tasar is a bit mis understood and as with many good boats has near zero marketing.

See  http://www.signallocker.co.uk/

New mylar sails will be available in the New Year and some new hulls are arriving from Australia. 

If the Tasar, which is 30 years old, was launched today as a new boat, I'm cetain it would get rave reviews.

Anyone ever sailed one ?

Originally posted by boatshed The Tasar would be a great one design choice.  The Tasar is a bit mis understood and as with many good boats has near zero marketing. See  http://www.signallocker.co.uk/ New mylar sails will be available in the New Year and some new hulls are arriving from Australia.  If the Tasar, which is 30 years old, was launched today as a new boat, I'm cetain it would get rave reviews. Anyone ever sailed one ?

Yep, I own one but I haven't sailed it for some time (due to the fact that my crew has dragged me into fast cats - I'd rather sail the Tasar).

As an owner, I'm totally biased but I feel that they are a great boat. At one stage I was thinking of selling it (no crew, already sailing Laser, cat, Canoe and several classes of windsurfer and yachts) and then I dragged it out in a 10-15 knot sea breeze and remembered how great they are and realised i could never get rid of it. Beautifully balanced helm (comparable to a Canoe or Flying Dutchman), nice hiking position (although that's very personal), lovely adjustable rig, and incredible competitive durability (1977-78 boats are regularly top of the fleet). Planes upwind (we used to out-pace the 470 Gold medallists upwind in chop in a breeze while training) and light (class average weight is about 68kg for the hull with fittings). Winning at top level means beating Olympic medallists or Laser Masters world's runner-up, so the fleet isn't bad.

Problems? Not necessarily the best boat in light winds - no kite, Vee shaped hull has more wetted surface than equivalent U shape (havin checked contemporary results and records and looking at modern design, I don't believe the hype that its basic shape was incredibly advanced), chines mean she may not be the best boat to roll tack, expensive sails, rotating mast is a hassle for crews, the only places where it would be called "popualr" are Australia, Japan and Pacific NW of North America, and Bethwaites have little interest in promoting it.