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CurlyBen View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 Dec 05 at 9:06pm
You only have to look at Laser's current range to see that - the pico, funboat, 2000 and Dart 16 are all used for beginners and inermediates where I work as an instructor, the Stratos hardly looks high performance though as I've never seen they or the SB3 I can't really comment on them. Apparently no new Laser 2s have been made recently, which leaves the Laser, 4000 and Dart 18. All good boats but no twin wired ultra high performance boats and I'm sure they're shifting a lot more 'training' boats than they are of the higher performance boats they make. Back to market forces then...
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49erGBR735HSC View Drop Down
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Posts: 1991 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 49erGBR735HSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 05 at 6:43pm
Have to agree completely with Jim there, if you look at the boats which are being launched recently by Topper, Laser, RS etc, they all seem to be falling into the family/sailing school/non-high performance category. Maybe the High Performance category has been filled in their eyes and its easier to focus on other markets, it would take a lot to develope a class which is aimed at sailors currently sailing Cherubs, 29ers, I-14s, 49ers, MPSs,RS 700s and 800s, B14s etc.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 05 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by yellowhammer

I know there are limited construction options for mass production, but I'd have loved to see more of the thoroughbred and less of the carthorse in the RS500! Wouldn't this be better for the sport?


Well in a market where the top selling boats are things like the Laser Topper and 420 its not immediately obvious that more performance = more sales...


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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Mark Jardine

Originally posted by damp_freddie

god this thread is mogadonal

Did you by any chance mean monotonal ?

I think he meant what he said. Mogadon is a sedative drug.

 
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yellowhammer View Drop Down
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Posts: 270 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowhammer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 05 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by simsy

To be fair, the helm is a very good sailor, so its not like it different or anything.

True ... Tony beats the same boats on the water in his L3000.

Originally posted by simsy

But if you are goin to make a boat about 3 stone lighter, its inevitabley going to be quicker.

That's the point ... why do the SMOD builders make their mass market boats so overweight?

These boats can only ever give mediocre performance, which will fail to enthuse buyers after the novelty wears off and they realise the boat lacks 'get up and go'. And the RS500 is targetted at youth crews, who need the adreniline rush to stay interested, and where ratio of boat weight to righting moment will be even worse.

I know there are limited construction options for mass production, but I'd have loved to see more of the thoroughbred and less of the carthorse in the RS600! Wouldn't this be better for the sport?
Laser 3000 @ Leigh & Lowton SC
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Bumble View Drop Down
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Posts: 302 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bumble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 05 at 5:03pm
Originally posted by Mark Jardine

Originally posted by damp_freddie

god this thread is mogadonal

Did you by any chance mean monotonal ?

Or Magnatartonal
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simsy View Drop Down
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Posts: 158 		Post Options Post Options   Quote simsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 05 at 10:17am
Originally posted by yellowhammer

Originally posted by redback

A V3000 prototype is racing at my club.  The boat is significantly faster than the L3000 in any sort of breeze although the helm claims he thinks its not as good in the light stuff.  The helm is very good but this doesn't explain completely why the V3000 is embarassing the 4000s - it has to be the boat, particularly the lighter hull.

Couldn't bear to look at this site (as 3000 class secretary) ... imagined RS would have conjoured up something a bit special ... needn't have worried ... RS and Laser will hype it out for the mass market share, but lighter weight club sailors who are 'in the know' will go for the V3000 out of these three, and that's Vandercraft's target market, so there's hope?

After 4 weekends at Wilsonian ... two weekends of F3-4s ... there were some complaints over the V3000's 1030 handicap I believe, but I understand the sailing committee supported retaining the 1030 figure ... an indicator of the future I hope

By the way, in answer to another comment, in recent talks with Frank Bethwaite he views the 3000 hull form as still being very competitive

And somebody asked for some pictures ... here's the only ones we have so far, on the water, in less than flattering conditions!!!:

http://laser3000.lasersailing.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6 11

To be fair, the helm is a very good sailor, so its not like it different or anything. But if you are goin to make a boat about 3 stone lighter, its inevitabley going to be quicker.
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Mark Jardine View Drop Down
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Posts: 1028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mark Jardine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 05 at 8:36am

Originally posted by damp_freddie

god this thread is mogadonal

Did you by any chance mean monotonal ?

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damp_freddie View Drop Down
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Posts: 339 		Post Options Post Options   Quote damp_freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 05 at 11:41pm

 

 

The laser 2 was a bloomin compromise to what PSC could build at the time and the 3000 is a compromise within that- why? you tell me.

 

I hear the 5000 has some bumps in it's polar and drag curve Mr W(?)

 

why can aussies build boats to a better market price BTW?

 

 

god this thread is mogadonal

 

 
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yellowhammer View Drop Down
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Posts: 270 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowhammer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 05 at 10:23pm
Originally posted by redback

A V3000 prototype is racing at my club.  The boat is significantly faster than the L3000 in any sort of breeze although the helm claims he thinks its not as good in the light stuff.  The helm is very good but this doesn't explain completely why the V3000 is embarassing the 4000s - it has to be the boat, particularly the lighter hull.

Couldn't bear to look at this site (as 3000 class secretary) ... imagined RS would have conjoured up something a bit special ... needn't have worried ... RS and Laser will hype it out for the mass market share, but lighter weight club sailors who are 'in the know' will go for the V3000 out of these three, and that's Vandercraft's target market, so there's hope?

After 4 weekends at Wilsonian ... two weekends of F3-4s ... there were some complaints over the V3000's 1030 handicap I believe, but I understand the sailing committee supported retaining the 1030 figure ... an indicator of the future I hope

By the way, in answer to another comment, in recent talks with Frank Bethwaite he views the 3000 hull form as still being very competitive

And somebody asked for some pictures ... here's the only ones we have so far, on the water, in less than flattering conditions!!!:

http://laser3000.lasersailing.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6 11
Laser 3000 @ Leigh & Lowton SC
www.3000class.org.uk
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